Overarching balance changes

[Jaycub]

As I said, I hate it when people ask devs (or basically any other people) to fix things they can EASILY fix themselves. I think it is extremely lazy on their part.

The people asking for these changes, hell even nerdy enough to participate in this thread are going to be using these addons themselves.

From my perspective at least, I would like to see these types of changes come about because improving upon these "lazy" people (PUGS) in turn helps me out. Even when im in a 6 man premade, if Im doing ORvR or if im in a 12+ man scenario I would like my pugs to be playing as best as possible.

I recently started playing healer, and it's given me a front row seat to just how awful some people can be. I've seen chosens throw guard on a backline heal DoK, proceed to run into the other teams backline and not once in the entire SC swap guard to a MDPS who we try to keep up to no avail. I see MDPS who charge in without guard and die over and over and over again instead of playing conservatively. I find it funny the amount of people who will roast DPS healers in a scenario but never once call out bad tanks, or DPS who just feed, or healers who are constantly dying by being out of position.

That rant aside, changes like making guard more visible might help bad or new players realize the importance of such mechanics and use them more often / better.


Ultimately though, Geni has posted and this discussion is done, no point in pushing for changes that can't be done. Thankfully it looks like some people will be making guides or what have you for certain "mandatory" addons and I think Geni said they will look into having them turned on by default?

[Haojin]

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[Zealote]

I recently started playing healer, and it's given me a front row seat to just how awful some people can be. I've seen chosens throw guard on a backline heal DoK, proceed to run into the other teams backline and not once in the entire SC swap guard to a MDPS who we try to keep up to no avail. I see MDPS who charge in without guard and die over and over and over again instead of playing conservatively. I find it funny the amount of people who will roast DPS healers in a scenario but never once call out bad tanks, or DPS who just feed, or healers who are constantly dying by being out of position.

Bit off-topic but as someone who mained a healer on AoR, this really reasonates with me I've always thought that healers are in the best position to see how other people are playing, and it's always amusing when you get raged at by, for example, the unguarded squishie that you see repeatedly just standing there trying to tank the train.

Anyway... carry on

[kweedko]

All this thread just showing us current sate of the game tonns of immortal TANKs just waited for morale and push us cloth minority to the ground. Im not surprised in a bit. Cause they think game completly fine, sure for tanks it is. GG NO RE.

Time to sit on respawn.

[Jaycub]

All this thread just showing us current sate of the game tonns of immortal TANKs just waited for morale and push us cloth minority to the ground. Im not surprised in a bit. Cause they think game completly fine, sure for tanks it is. GG NO RE.

Time to sit on respawn.

Trolling aside is it finally time to talk about the disparity between morales that exists between archetypes and classes? :^)

[Toldavf]

All this thread just showing us current sate of the game tonns of immortal TANKs just waited for morale and push us cloth minority to the ground. Im not surprised in a bit. Cause they think game completly fine, sure for tanks it is. GG NO RE.

Time to sit on respawn.

Trolling aside is it finally time to talk about the disparity between morales that exists between archetypes and classes? :^)

I'd be in for a bite of that certain class Morales suck

[Gachimuchi]

You need some accessories to beat guard which originaly not implemented in the game. So you got 2 options: Nah

1-Implement those accessories to original game.
2-Scale the guard mechanic.
3-Knockbacks
4-Keeping the tank away from his guarded target in some manner or another

That's why i suggested scaling guard mechanic. Because it's very hard to implement that accessories to game.

Scaling "Guard" ( i prefer only in scenarios ) is easier and will be global for everyone. I don't think that "default addon pocket"s or "tutorials for dummies" will work for everyone.


First of all, i don't have a personal problem with "Guard". It can stay like this and it's better for me actually. That suggestion from the beginning was for community. Don't make me c-p all my posts. It started at PAGE 28 like this:

Spoiler:

Guard mechanic needs a scaling:

In scenarios it should be like %25

In RvR lakes: %50

Or you can change the guard radius like 10 feet.

and evolved like this:

There are many strong elements to make your premade strong. "Guard" is the most effective one. Staying in the 30 feet while doing nothing mitigates %50 damage of your defensive target. It's overkill for most of the players who cannot counter it without out game accessories ( addons - voice comms )l2p issue

So, implementing those accessories to game is impossible and "tutorial for dummies" won't work for everyone you got only one option: Rescale it or change the mechanic. learn to use your keyboard and computer issue

You said yourself 'you're not a scenario farm type of guy' which just says to me that you want the game to be broken at the SC level so nobody plays it so everyone zergs oRvR or mindlessly assists trains with 4 rdps 2 healer groups in scenarios instead. All of your 'arguments' which are less arguments and more uneducated opinion and can be explicitly refuted as such:

Spoiler:

L2P ISSUE

Edit: I don't understand this self-disclaimer of yours that you keep hiding behind. You keep saying 'its just my opinion' and highlighting 'suggest' to act like you don't hold these things to be fact. Then in the same post you say stuff like 'guard is too strong' with nothing backing it up other than because pugs need the game to be easier to fight premades.

As for morales...

DoK M2 is too strong. It is probably one of the single largest contributing factors to double DoK groups being a thing instead of DoK/Zealot. It is almost equivalent in potency to a Resolute Defense in the fact it can save an otherwise dead target in a snap. Armor debuff, wounds debuff(which is already not likely to be there due to the rarity of 2H knight and 2H slayer), heal debuff, snares, blurring shock, and a million DoTs are cleansed by a MORALE 2.

This should at least be a M3 or a M4. No Escape is one of the best morales in game, but it's a M3, balancing it out somewhat. Or perhaps leave it as is, but make it not cleanse the DoK so the DoK can't use it to bail himself out of almost any sticky situation.

Warrior Priest morales on the other hand are absolute garbage. There is no situation ever unless you happen to be a DPS warrior priest (which foreshadows how useless it is) where you would want to use Divine Aegis. The duration is too short for the armor buff to matter and the heal is less than a DPS healer HoT.

Divine Replenishment only works for melee, and AP is not something Order struggles with considering Runepriest's Master Rune of Fury almost gives infinite AP on its own, and the warrior priest can run AP restore tactic.

I might touch on a few other morales later that I feel are useless, unless someone beats me to it.

[footpatrol2]

Opinion. My perspective. I'm only writing this because the server is down and I'm bored.

This is written out of response to Gachimuchi

Spoiler:

DoK M2 is too strong. It is probably one of the single largest contributing factors to double DoK groups being a thing instead of DoK/Zealot. It is almost equivalent in potency to a Resolute Defense in the fact it can save an otherwise dead target in a snap. Armor debuff, wounds debuff(which is already not likely to be there due to the rarity of 2H knight and 2H slayer), heal debuff, snares, blurring shock, and a million DoTs are cleansed by a MORALE 2.

Double Dok groups are strong because of the original design. The original design was based on the tabletop game. In the tabletop game same race army factions would fight other same race army factions. This was mimic'd in this game. Your suppose to run as double dok groups or double zealot groups or double shaman groups in classic 2/2/2 setups. Just like there are large benefits of running double knight/double BO/double SM (whisper)/double chosen/double IB. Even at one point double BG.

There is a assumption made by the community that we should have mixed groups to the point of mixed archtypes. Such as there should be a chosen and BO in the same group or there should be a zealot and DoK in the same group. Why? Its generally better to double up on something and fully utilize the entire spec lines to get the most out of the classes your seeking to implement. Such as having two different spec'd chosen's spec'd all the way up to the 15th spec point to get the max out of the aura's and abilities. They compliment each other... by design.

The reason why some classes have really good morales and others have piss poor morales is because they were tied to the racial group morale set ups. There was a whole meta based on morale set ups that never got realized. Such as racial group moral bombs and racial morale defensive cycles. Some classes such as the shaman are not part of the morale bomb component or the defensive morale cycle but they are a major part of the morale pump component. Dok's are part of the morale pump component, defensive morale cycle component and morale bomb (althought semi weak). The racial morales are there to either help set up your group 6/12/24 man to get to thier bomb. The defensive cycle's classes generally are part of the bomb component. You have to break your defensive morale cycle to try for your strongest morale bomb or shoot for a weaker bomb to keep your defensive cycle going. Your trading survivability for potential enemy instant death (The I win button). These morale bombs can get big enough that it causes instant death for generally 30 foot area. That is valuable...

Please note that you lost all your morale gain upon death. This is not the case in RoR. Meaning if you killed a bomb component or defensive morale cycle component you'd be breaking the defensive morale cycle or weakening a coordinated morale bomb push. Also know that morale gain is slower in RoR then it was in the mythic servers. Know also these same racial groups gained 25 to 30% faster morale gain then mixed.

Look at the double Dok healy set up. There used to be easy access to a morale pump tactic and 1001 blessings was 30 sec's. This meant that 1001 blessings could have 100% upkeep. This was a large part of the meta at one time. This meant that if you burned your RACIAL morale 2's (Khaines withdrawal) you'd have to break out of your defensive cycle of 1001 blessings with your healy dok's. For dark elves Dok's were part of the defensive morale cycle and the morale bomb with universal confusion. If you were a coordinated DE 12 man Just from 4 healy Dok's you got 4 universal confusions for a mini morale bomb of instant 30 ft 4800 damage. This can still be done today. Many other classes can do this such as 4 BO's with deafening Bellow.

1001 blessings 30 sec duration got taken away because it was deemed too powerful because it stacked with aura's/other resists. I suggested earlier in this thread that inter-racial in-house group buffs stacking should go away. Such as chosen aura's buff's should only affect chaos race and not other factions such as dark elves and greenskins. 1001 blessings should only affect other dark elves and not chaos or greenskins.

Note: The 1001 blessings duration nerf helped destroy the Blackguard as far as class balance. Dark elves had access to quick morale boosts. The resist gain for Dark elves as a faction was done by 1001 blessings. 1001 blessings also has avoidence attached to it. Blackguards didn't need to have a resist buff because the dark elf faction got it from the Dok's. Blackguards didn't need to be able to have as high avoidence as other tanks because they got it from 1001 blessings. Dark elves as a faction could reach any morale 3 or 4 they wanted quickly due to morale pump tactic in the healing tree. This meant that loathing Blackguard morale 4 (khaine's warding) could be reached extremely quickly. Khaines warding has amazing synergy with none shall pass ability which is extremely low in the loathing tree. Which means it can be picked up from a non loathing blackguard and still benefit from khaine's warding in a coordinated morale 4 khaines warding pop. That would provide a Massive heal to a 6 man assuming the BG are taking a lot of guard damage.

These tricks go on for days and they are all lost and not realized due to buffs stacking among inter races.

Everything i wrote above is my perspective (opinion). To me everything points in this direction of racial groups and it got ruined by inter racial buffs stacking. The patch before brutal smash got changed from a disorient to a str/willpower buff is (I suspect) the period when they started steering away from the original design.

I realize that most people don't share my perspective. I realize this RoR will never take a serious look into racial groups. This makes me sad. I still believe it is important to know why those abilities were placed where they were. Everything originally had a purpose.

There is a lesson here for the current dev's. Just because you think a idea is cool and unique doesn't mean the playerbase will realize it/implement it. Mythic thought racial groups would be popular and the synergy would be overwhelming to the gaming population. It wasn't. Due to a simple design flaw of inter racial buffs stacking it never came to fruition.

[Haojin]

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[Bretin]

Every topic on the poll could be closed with a "L2P issue tag". Hence we should stop discussing!

fixed m8.