[Split] Marauder discussion

[Razid1987]

Razid, White Lions are not in a good place, not by a long shot and Az already confirmed an incoming buff.

I might have misspoken. What I meant was that the WL isn't in need of a nerf (I were talking about classes being in a good place). All I've read on the forums is how OP Pounce is (lol), and I honestly don't see the problem with them jumping a bit around. I'd actually be okay with them being slightly OP, since they were non-present in live, when I played, at least.
This argument basically does for all the non-power classes, imho. I really want to see some change from the class-representation that was really uneven in live. I want to see something new.

[Razid1987]

See, at least this guy is reasonable in his analysis.

Comes from the guy who personally attacks you, insults you, and condescends you on multiple occasions, because you point out the flaws in his arguments. Nice. Such a civilized gentleman....

[Coryphaus]

Here's the thing with pounce, we let the ability slide simply because wl is a shitty class

If pounce was on any other mdps class it would be uttly ubsurd and game breaking

The level of mobility and utility provides while sumultanously allowing you to essentially Ignore knock back cc

Down the line when white lions becomes more powerful due to what ever buffs, changes and improvements are made pounce should be looked at

[Tesq]

the fact that pounce do not have a mirror on choppa is bad, also on live pouce was seriuly badder than here, and just allow an op thing cos a class was bad on live is not right.
Also most of ppl ask for a CD on pounce to just dont let it spammy as hell.

This is not to nerf wl offensive power, but just to prevent wl use this as an escape tool than insanly ingore/ snare.

[Ungrin]

See, at least this guy is reasonable in his analysis.

Comes from the guy who personally attacks you, insults you, and condescends you on multiple occasions, because you point out the flaws in his arguments. Nice. Such a civilized gentleman....

You insulted me first, why would I be civilized towards you after that?

[Korhill]

I say it again. Pounce with a CD is worthless and would be another worthless skill in there mastery trees.
Might aswell than change the skill and give wl something that is more usefull for groups instead before give it a CD.

[Shanell]

mDPS:
Slayers / Marauders are the top tier DPS for order/destro respectively.
WL (needs slight buff) / Mara (needs slight nerf)
Slayers (need slight nerf) / Choppa (needs slight buff)
WH / WE (WE might need a small buff)

rDPS:
SW (fine as is) / SH (fine as is (maybe slight buff))
Engi / Magus (both need buffs)
Sorc / BW (fine as is, BW has better survivability while sorc has a stronger (shorter) rotation))

Tanks:
SM / BO (Both need buffs, SM slightly more than BO)
IB (fine where it's at) / BG (slight buff to DPS/2h tree)
Kob / Chosen (Fine where it is)

Heals:
Sham (needs slight buff to healing) / AM (needs slight buff to survivability)
WP / DoK (fine as is)
Zealot / RP (Both need buffs to survivability)

WAR is RVR game and always was like that. Classes are balanced for MASS PVP, not solo gaming.
P.S That thread was sponsored by butthurt.

[Azuzu]

I say it again. Pounce with a CD is worthless and would be another worthless skill in there mastery trees.
Might aswell than change the skill and give wl something that is more usefull for groups instead before give it a CD.

That's a bit over dramatic, I'm sure the other melee classes would love to have pounce on a 5 - 10 CD. It would still make a fantastic gap closer.

I don't think in WLs current state pounce needs to be touched.

However, if you buff the class and put in on par with Mara/Slayer damage wise you would need to look at pounce. You can't have an ultra mobile class that does just as much damage as the less mobile classes.

[Shanell]

Don't forget engineers you biased pig!

Engi's can auto attack, Magus can't, devs favor Order, Orders OP!

Maguses don't have to up Ballistic Skill.
Magus.
Plus, rooting and knockbacing WLs are useless.

[Xaun]

Whilst I agree Mara needs a couple of slight adjustments (namely PB only affecting mutations and Feeding on Fear for both the SW and Mara working as intended), it simply does not have all toys in one spec

And just to call this out, anyone citing KD on disrupt clearly hasn't played a Mara in T4. Disrupt happens so infrequently vs 1500+ Intel casters that most Maras won't even have it slotted. Its not anytime and thus can't be used strategically

But in the interests of realm balance let's look at some T4 disparity

There are many very, very powerful abilities that exist on Order only or in some cases are mirrored on obscure specs of less useful classes (e.g. Shatter Limbs/Bad Gas). And whilst I'm not suggesting Destro don't have some powerful unique abilities (Crippling Strikes, Thunderous Blow, Piercing Bite, Covenant of Celerity) - they are largely single target and pale in comparison to the Order plethora:

ID / Shatter Limbs / Rampage
Festerbomb / Leading Shots
Dirty Tricks / Encouraged Aim / Focused Mending / Destroy Confidence
Exalted Defences
+50% AA haste on all mDps
2x Ranged KD
BW self cleanse/inc heal debuff
Pounce (as a no cooldown, kiter-catching, melee-train-escaping, mid-air useable OP ability - that for some reason still allows them to escape Champs Challenge, Snare and Root)

It is not just that the Slayer is devastatingly effective against multiple foes (not just from an undefendable damaging perspective, but from the ability to deploy powerful debuffs like the ridiculous Shattered Limbs) at almost the same level as it's counterpart can do ST

It's the crazy synergy of the above predominantly Order only abilities

What the Knight brings to a group just by turning up and having 3 auras on beyond the Auras themselves (with Encouraged Aim, Dirty Tricks and Focused Mending) and standing still is insane, he loses nothing (as in terms of his tools he _needs_ a tank)

Equivalent +20% crit to outbound attacks along with +10% to crit heals for group without them having to spec anything and with no need to recast or land a blow, alone is stronger than anything Destro has

Given that all Order mdps have BOTH +50% crit dmg tactics (that Destro has) AND +50% AA haste tactics (that Destro doesn't) that both gain this benefit the synergy is immense. Toss in Leading Shots and it becomes farcical

With the prevalence of WPs and Knights in T4, the combination of Exalted Defences and and Focused Mending is absurd (note that if these stack additively, at the very least the Chosen heal debuff aura should also stack additively with other incoming heal debuffs)

A 50% Inc heal debuff would only really be a 35% debuff to a WP grouped with a Knight

Pounce, ahh pounce.. If Order don't appreciate what a phenomenal skill it is - mirror to the Choppa instead of the shitty AP skill they get instead of Rampage