Enough with Order outnumbering Destro

[Cyrylius]

"NA players are inferior" meme comes from the times when it still had population and it suffered very similar issues to what's happening currently. Any guild active in that timezone struggled with extremely easily discouraged players, overpopulation of solo roamers and class balance issues which in turn resulted in lack of proper environment for group players to appear in numbers. Which, again, caused the whole meme. And it's still like that. There were some signs of life, most recent one i belive to be corpse stompers who were forming against jempire/rolgrom and somehow managing to get good, even fights despite the various obstacles, but I'm assuming they eventually started winning/ losing too much which caused the whole thing to collapse from one side or the other. (To be fair, there was also sigon initiative, but it collapsed pretty fast after he joined NM). Other than this overly detailed analysis I can only repeat the already mentioned advices, join a guild, form parties, play the high-school teen game of getting chummy with various discords to get priority when anything is formed and maybe support any new pug leader you spot.

[Kobical]

Yesterday in Praag, I think the EU guilds were just getting close to finishing up and they spawned a Destro ram/keep take attempt.

Some guy in region was constantly yelling stuff like:

"fake ram, DO NOT SUPPORT"
"they are feeding their Order friends RR"
"do not go to that keep, you will fail"

and other comments like that.

It leads to a lot of uncertainty and a lot of players didn't know what to do (support or not?) but the chance of something is better than just doing nothing, right? So we went to support the keep take attempt and after a nice fight, we got in and took the keep and the zone.

Maybe it was because (as said earlier) destro players are used to getting beat up from order during NA times, we just expect to lose? I've not been here so long that I know the full story but it was a lot more fun to fight instead of playing passive waiting for order to do their usual pve keep takes. I hope this happens more often

[baselinestun]

Another day and another 6+ hours of Order PvDoor from the usual suspects, how many forts will it be? 2 or 3? Some keep saying that realm locks are bad and stop people from evening the numbers but I very rarely see it happen, they usually just end up joining the more populated realm for easy bags so what's the solution? Is it possible to fix server culture?

[Evilspinnre]

We definitely would have swapped to destro after Ostland last night if entire WB didn't have 90 min lockout. Remove lockout timer if swapping to outnumbered side ty

[Acidic]

We definitely would have swapped to destro after Ostland last night if entire WB didn't have 90 min lockout. Remove lockout timer if swapping to outnumbered side ty

Alas no amount of xrealming will fix the population swing that has been going on for at least 2 years.
Since those last few balance patch (2years ago) that effectively warped balance players have either left the game or joined order for the easy life.
This trend becomes more and more pronounced and now with new player following the pvdoor train to gear the divide in population will just get worse.
Now and again the xrealm might help one side or other but the standard model will be EU going same way as NA .
Server will just be left with small population and group of xrealmers making the gameplay boring and switching even more on the win of xrealm.
In short until either balance team actually balances there is no hope for the population order swing.

To be honest not even sure decent balance can save the situation now, as the pvdoor or hide in keep model is appearing to be so intrenched that players just won’t change or claim even more that this is how they see the game should be played.

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

How do you suggest the devs address bad destro NA players?

Why do you attack Destro NA players as "bad" when they are outnumbered? How does that make them bad players? Are you a troll?
NA(North American region) are not just Americans, but also Canadians and some Central American countries. Not sure if you have a nonsensical prejudice against peeps from usa or not.

Care to explain why you think Destro NA players are "bad"? What are they doing wrong? What can they improve on as being the underdog when outnumbered?
Some helpful explanations instead of dismissing all NA players as "bad" would actually be helpful.

You're just kicking them while they're down when you say they're "bad" for being MASSIVELY outnumbered in fort and keep rvr.
It's as if your encouraging all Destro NA players to 100% quit and to just reroll order. Does order NA players really want to have a 100% pve experience in the rvr lakes/fort?.

You decide to stereotype/toss all Destro NA players in the mop bucket when there are many great Destro NA players that give an effort in the face of extreme odds against them. EU may be balanced, but the underdog experience for NA Destro is a unique emotional experience.

I'm not saying all Destro players are not "bad". There are some that are, because I have seen them myself.

1. One time in Shadowlands zone which we were defending, I tried making a Destro pug and I was able to get my wb filled to the max, but after we got wiped ONCE, most of them disbanded like the domino effect. Really?.
Just because a pug wb wipes, doesnt mean its over. It's over when the zone is locked, so people shouldn't give up so easily.
When order pug wb wipes, they dont quit. Learn from how order is playing.

2. Attempted to send invites to fellow Destro NA players in a rvr lake to join group.
Most declined. Why?
This is a pvp game, if you want to solo pvp but if your not a WE then you should obviously reroll or consider finding another real 100% solo-only pvp game to play. This is a multiplayer game, work together and you will gain more than you ever could as a solo player.

Most of the "solo" pvp Youtube videos that some newtimers first see about ROR and think "I want to be like THAT!" as their motivation for playing the game as a solo player are unrealistic. These people are not only bis geared but also very experienced to pull off 1v1 stuff like that.
If more NA Destro players were to join small roam groups they would have a better experience than solo where they get ganked and camped over and over again.

As for @OP, it is not depressing to play Destro if you are committed enough. There are times in EU that players play a faction when outnumbered no matter the odds and they still have alot of fun, you can too.

But like @Rubius said, the best thing that can be done besides soloing is joining or make your own pugs or overflow, joining or make your own roam groups w/Discord, or join a Destro guild for more coordinated wb action w/Discord.

There are some Destro NA guilds that actually exist (Big Inc, Krew, etc) that you can join. Don't take my word for it, look in the "Destruction" section of the forum for these guilds and more.

@OP, the fact is that the dev's cannot fix this kind of problem. This is a player population issue. Not a gameplay issue.

Will NA Destro be outnumbered forever? Idk.
But there are things that can be done until then as the underdog to help improve/maximize your rvr experiences:
Join or make your own: pug or overflow pugs, small roam groups, and consider joining a real NA Destro guild to get the most out of this game.

Rough guess, playing order with ping issues during NA time is easier for ordsrs since they just have to blob spam rampage/retribuition because thats what is about right now the order meta in rvr. Meanwhile viceversa choppa gtdc and retribution counterpart require kiting because you cant facetank order slayer ball. Due ping this is likely to end in failleur. Wait for nerf patch for slayer/chopp channelings. The sich should be manageable after it.
Tough lots of class gona be in ruin...

[Phantasm]

Unlikely to agree with Evilspin, but realm lockout when swaping from overpop side to underpop should be bypassed. Defending side need anyone WILLING to fight against bigger numbers.

[Sulorie]

Unlikely to agree with Evilspin, but realm lockout when swaping from overpop side to underpop should be bypassed. Defending side need anyone WILLING to fight against bigger numbers.

But then we get the opposite complaints, that suddenly the defending side becomes too strong and the siege fails. :^)

[Scottx125]

Unlikely to agree with Evilspin, but realm lockout when swaping from overpop side to underpop should be bypassed. Defending side need anyone WILLING to fight against bigger numbers.

It could also be easily abused and create lopsided fights. Unless evil and every other guild signs a pact to always play the underdog faction when AAO shifts. But I doubt that'll happen. To be fair it also shouldn't require people shifting around to keep the game fun and balanced.

[Phantasm]

Unlikely to agree with Evilspin, but realm lockout when swaping from overpop side to underpop should be bypassed. Defending side need anyone WILLING to fight against bigger numbers.

It could also be easily abused and create lopsided fights. Unless evil and every other guild signs a pact to always play the underdog faction when AAO shifts. But I doubt that'll happen. To be fair it also shouldn't require people shifting around to keep the game fun and balanced.

It has been abused in forts but I think someone got a warning and that not happening again. Like I said, if something is abused there is a report button and GMs thirsty for some action too. As there is no realm pride on certain times of a day or night, we rely on xrealmers then.

It's often better for a cross-realm guild or organized warband to switch to the underdog side when they log on. Typically, opponents dodge fights or log off to lock them into a 90-minute period of no-fighting or pug-farming state.