Dear DPS Healers.. from Us

[mursie]

You fail to understand that by posting that, he made it very clear that his post wasn't worth reading. He stated that because AM is listed as a healer, it should only ever be a healer. This is small-minded rubbish. There is no reason, no reason at all that a class with a viable DPS spec should have that spec made worthless because it is listed as being part of the healer archetype. It is utterly, utterly irrelevant what that class is marked as on the character screen.

I cannot emphasise enough that I have no respect for ANYONE who wants to cut variety out of the game based on one or two words in the character creation screen. It is NOT an argument and it will NOT be respected. If the spec is imbalanced in any direction (and in 1on1 it is, but we aren't focusing on that) then it should be fixed, but its entire existence will not be dismissed using such a flimsy justification.

Azarael - your post is all well and good. But seriously, that is at it's heart - an opinion.

I can respect your opinion, but we ask the same open mindedness towards others as well. In a game of archetypes... where the hybrids clearly failed (seriously, we can't dispute this anymore, after all of these years... it is true - hybrid archetypes failed) the reality is that alot of people hold the opinion that the primary archetype designation for a class is what the class should be. You can disagree but it is an opinion.

[Azarael]

Could you, then, point out a reason why we should remove the DPS specs from classes solely because they're marked as healers or tanks on the character creation screen?

Otherwise, I don't understand what your point is. DPS AM / Shaman isn't a hybrid.

[Jaycub]

What is going on here, Mursie is saying because hybrids failed we shouldn't try and make them work? And did Az just say DPS AM/Shaman aren't hybrids?

[Azarael]

I don't view them as hybrids. They're not played that way at the moment. They're played for damage and whatever personal survivability can be gotten from their healer archetype skills. They're more comparable to a DPS tank than a hybrid healer imo.

[Penril]

Mursi, we are not talking about hybrid specs here. We are talking about DPS specs on non-dps classes.

There is a difference between something like this: (granted i don't know the best DPS/Hybrid specs for this class, but i hope you get my point)

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=am; ... 4:;0:0:0:0: (viable DPS spec in certain setups)

and

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=am; ... 8:;0:0:0:0: (meh hybrid spec that tries to DPS and heal at the same time)

[Jaycub]

b-but my epic DPS AM heals

What exactly does this mean for Shaman/AM if you don't consider them hybrids? How are you going to handle changing their other 2 trees etc... to make them viable RDPS?

Right now they don't really compete with BW/SW and their mirrors on destro, and that gap will get wider with t4.

[Penril]

b-but my epic DPS AM heals

What exactly does this mean for Shaman/AM if you don't consider them hybrids? How are you going to handle changing their other 2 trees etc... to make them viable RDPS?

Right now they don't really compete with BW/SW and their mirrors on destro, and that gap will get wider with t4.

They don't compete in a 2 2 2 group setup. But in a 1 3 2, i would definitely consider taking a AM/Shaman over a Sorc/BW.

1 tank floats guard over 2 mdps. You have 2 fully dedicated healers. The last spot is for a DPS Shaman that can help with Snare puddle, AP Drain, extra cleanse, instant rez, etc.

[Azarael]

That was a core issue raised in the other thread - which direction to take. Either we attempt to make them work as mixed classes leaning towards one specialisation, or we rework the mechanic to power the Vaul tree's lifetaps, or we screw it all and make them work as either pure DPS or pure healers depending on spec.

This shouldn't be impossible, even for 6 man, as long as people accept that the pure 2/2/2 setup isn't the be all and end all, and mixed classes can and should be made to compliment one another within such a setup.

[mursie]

forgive me, but my point was missed.

It is much more macro than specs etc.. (i apologize for introducing this micro detail that derailed the point).

My point was - a post Azarael responded to was claimed to be rubbish and stupid and thus irrelevant. But that poster had an opinion.. And Azarael's response is an opinion. Not everyone agrees that a "healer" archetype should play dps. regardless of whether mythic gave them a dps tree for hybrid bs giggles that failed when the game was launched.

Now - you can disagree and say "no - these classes should be able to play dps". That is fine. But it is an OPINION. And its relevance should be given the same weight as someone who holds the opposite opinion.

[Azarael]

The point is that he was making that post specifically to force a change, and he admits as such in its lead - he says he will "keep posting it until something is done". He believes his opinion regarding whether or not a class with a little piece of text saying "Healer" above it when it's created should be able to DPS is important enough that we should change the game because of it. Had he provided actual arguments based around some destructive effect on the game or on its balance (outside of 1on1), I would have respected his post. But he did not. His post was "I don't believe that healers should be allowed to DPS. Change the game." That's IT.

The benefits of that action are non-existent. The negatives are removing options from the game. Hence, no respect.