The PvP foodchain

[Penril]

^ you should have tried dueling my brother Neuropol. Don't think he ever failed to maintain a 50%+ win ratio against AMs. it's all about the player. and most sorcs were very bad.

agreed on the rest.

I would have wrecked your brother's sorc. All it takes for an AM to beat a sorc is to throw a dot, detaunt, LoS, heal. Repeat until Sorc dies. Seriously, any player who is not completely retarded should be able to defeat the best rr100 sorc in the history of WAR in 1v1, unless playing in an open field with no way to LoS.

And no,i'm not saying your bro was/is bad, or that i'm better than him. I'm just saying that some classes are definitely, completely better than others in 1v1. Therefore, duels don't count.

[jonathanmurphy3]

Guess we can only go on hearsay. If you were in the dueling scene on Norn, then you'd have known him. You can LoS win, of course, but out in the open? Unlikely.

The same logic can be applied outside of duels: BWs > Engi; Sorc > Magi; KOTBS > SM, etc.

[Penril]

Guess we can only go on hearsay. If you were in the dueling scene on Norn, then you'd have known him. You can LoS win, of course, but out in the open? Unlikely.

The same logic can be applied outside of duels: BWs > Engi; Sorc > Magi; KOTBS > SM, etc.

The best duelers i have ever known all agree with me that this game is simply not balanced for 1v1 and some classes are FAR better than others in duels (hell, even Devs pointed out a thousand times that game is not balanced 1v1). I wasn't in the Norn dueling scene, but to be honest i have already played and fought many of these so-called Norn pro players (you know, the ones who love to say "herp derp Euro>>>>>>Murica, Norn>>>>>>Badlands) and tbh i wasnt impressed at all. Yes, some are very good. But some are really bad as well. In the end both "scenes" are pretty much the same.

Also, your "You can LoS win, of course, but out in the open? Unlikely" comment further proves that some classes are better than others in 1v1. The only way for a sorc to beat an AM, given equal skill, is to handicap the AM (AM-can't-use-LoS rule). That's like having a Shaman duel a Slayer and have a rule that says "Shaman can't kite".

[jonathanmurphy3]

When have I ever said that dueling was balanced? I didn't. AM is innately a more powerful class 1v1 (probably the best barring several others).
What I am saying is that exceptional players of any class can make it work. That is the case with dueling in nearly every PvP MMO.

Yes, but LoS is frowned upon by quite a few people. An AM isn't ''handicapped'' as a good AM can still come out top even without using LoS. On Norn, most duels took place in the open areas, so LoS wasn't a factor.

To reiterate: the game isn't balanced for 1v1, but good players of any class can make them shine. I concede that some classes are better, but to assume from this that you can beat every single individual of said class is: a) pretentious; and b) ignorant. There were Magi that could rip DPS AMs a new one if properly spec'd.

In regards to your comments on having faced Norn's best - we, again, can only go on hearsay.

[Penril]

LoS is frowned upon by quite a few people.

This is the reason duels don't count. Silly rules are created in order to handicap a class so the fight is competitive/close. Your brother's sorc only won because the AMs he fought were forced to stay in front of him. Add to that AM can't cleanse Sorc's dots and it ends up being a DPS race which will the sorc will probly win. If the same AM encountered that sorc in ORvR, fight would end up differently.

Same thing could be said of a tank dueling a BW/SW; since RD is frowned upon by most duelers, the tank will be KD before he ever gets close to the BW/SW. However, in ORvR, if you (as a tank) see an enemy BW, you will immediately equip a 2H with FO slot (armor doesnt count against BWs), ride as close to him as you can before he notices you, use RD and kill him.

These things are the ones that, for me, define a good player: the ability to make (good) decisions pretty much instantly, having different tactic sets/gear (closetgoblin) to deal with different situations in ORvR. This applies for soloing and group play.

Duels? just use the fotm spec and win against classes you are supposed to win/lose to classes you are supposed to lose 90% of the time.

[jonathanmurphy3]

I never said duels count towards anything, mate. They're merely a fun means to passing the time.
Different people had different views towards using RD and CW in duels.

That's how ORVR and dueling differentiate between one another.
Scenarios? Just spam the KOTBS/SL/WP setup. There's always a FOTM spec/make-up: the challenge resides in using something different, and coming out on top. There was a DPS Zealot back on Norn who could beat DPS AMs rather easily (not all, mind). There's always a player or 2 who can make any class shine, even against the FOTM specs/classes. That is where the fun/challenge comes into play.

Video: a BW taking on 2 opponents (one being a RR100 WE) at the same time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd1-rmGEjSQ

Any class can excel in dueling, if played well. You might not win every other class, but a 6-man team using 2 zealots, 2 black orcs and 2 magi will not win 2 sorcs 2 doks and 2 chosen.

[Penril]

A true pro is someone who knows his class inside out, who can lead people in coordinated 6-mans/warbands, who can duel with his class. that's my take anyway

You clearly said on that post that "a true pro is someone who can duel with his class". I just pointed out how wrong you were on that.

Agree on the rest of the things you said.

[jonathanmurphy3]

That's my opinion. If you can't handle yourself on your own, you aren't a true professional! that's just my view, and its made in jest of course Pointing out that certain classes are better than others in dueling doesn't negate from a good player being able to at least try to put up a fight on their own, so I don't see how you've discredited that.

Anyway let's refrain from further argument, and let the blood boil and explode when we meet on Friday! (if you've managed to amass a group)

[Razid1987]

A true pro is someone who knows his class inside out, who can lead people in coordinated 6-mans/warbands, who can duel with his class. that's my take anyway

A pro would be a professional, would it not?

If you want to say that someone is good, then why not just say it? Why do you have to use the word "pro", which already has meaning? It seems people have highjacked the term, just because they thought it sounded cool, lal.

[jonathanmurphy3]

A matter of semantics; the point is you know what I mean, lol.
Would be awesome if you could get some of SoD to come along this Friday, Raz!