[BG] Utility discussion

[Arteker616]

Just to clarify, BG isnt weak, its an excellent and best designed of the tanks and im sure its no co incidence it was the last class designed either.

Hardly anyone playing the class and BGs never holding a spot in a 6man says you are incorrect

u play much?. plenty of bgs , and growing to the point u can see less and less black orks. and is curious u say that about 6 man, because 2 days ago avocetti nd co where calling one of them cheater in tm at palik bo while he was in a 6 man

[Arteker616]

BG might be good (it's decent, got mine at rr46), but what I notice is that WBs prefer having Blorcs and Chosen for a reason, which is fast M4 pumping.
BGs most awesome 2h tree also causes them to lose KD if they go 2h, which is kinda "essential" for tanks.

BG good, Blorc better, Chosen most beloved

Bg is aswell the most tanky of all the 2hs tanks in destru by a long shot . and probably the most efficent on that role . i dont think alot of people realize , what happens when u got a tank with spameable outgoing heal debuff and a mdps inc debuff intop of a healer . The debate about 2hs borcs pumping more dmg than bgs is aswell kinda hillarious because u prety much can see bos getting poped rather easy while BG keep on fighting . and more than often outdamaging black orcs due to a way way more superior staying power .

Aswell having probably one of the best and underrated abilitys in a 6 man enviroment wich is choking fury .

exept that you exel only at that, so you just have to be keep away from healers with snares (point you do not have a snare immunity and cc away from being aggressive make you melee or rdps dead).

Your niche from 3rd mastery is hardcountered and the outcoming heal debuff dont need to be spamable, actually a Choppa/WE can also provide it and bury it under other tons of dots if necessary. You also loose like double the time keep yourself selfbuffed than other tanks.

There is a big difference when bg outgoing heal debuff is spameable and choppa one is 30secs

[Lektroluv]

And is curious u say that about 6 man, because 2 days ago avocetti nd co where calling one of them cheater in tm at palik bo while he was in a 6 man

Sorry to burst your bubble dear friend, but that same group was telling that same Blackguard "why you are not a Chosen?" some days ago.

Chosen and Black orc are better tanks, and every player knew that since live server times.

On other side, i see the order players are triying to use the Blackguard weakness for try to nerf Marauder debuffs and make him weaker.

I am very fan of those people which don't wanna balance the game, and only use balance request for create a stompmaker realm which win 7 days a week, 24 hours per day.

Those same players are the ones which say:
White lion is balanced
Ranged knowdown is normal
Kotbs area snare each 5 seconds + long punt each 10 seconds + knowdown full time available is OK
Swordmaster spiritual damage + the huge spiritual resist debuff is perfectly right in a tank class.

While the Blackguard compared to Kotbs has no Knowdown full time available and need trigger block and 90-100 hate for make it 5 seconds (otherwise with lower Hate is 4 or 3 seconds one only), the area snare has a 20 seconds cooldown compared to the 5 seconds KoTBS has, and the punt has another 20 seconds cooldown instead of the 10 seconds in KoTBS.

Maybe Blackguard don't need more things, instead Kotbs punt should be 20 seconds cooldown, area snare 20 seconds cooldown, and make the KoTBS knowdown require a block too....
Oh and let's look Runefang tactic too powerfull effect or at auras buffing full group in a longer range, instead of single target each 20 seconds in 50 feets range like blackguard does, since we are talking about balance.

You could see thousands of KoTBS jumping from IC bridge

[Tesq]

Those talk were done in the balance section but either for lack of client controll or a consensus or both (we dont know) some balance forum threads still remain neither declined nor accepted just locked after 2 week period for discussion had pass.
Other threads never saw the light of the discussion and got declined for i don't know what serious reason.
And then there were some absurd discussions such dragon gun thread where some ppl would liked instead fix the only few aoe utility a class have bitch about 2 st mastery a class have not being enough and instead try to remove all the chance of wh to be playable aoe totally going against what is written in the rule section aka every class should be "playable" in all the game aspect
Aka of aka it must have a dam working build for every set up;
Even if healer ->heal or dps / Even is an assassin class st or aoe.
Ppl tryed to made such discussion in a very friendly and open minded way but very few passed throu succesfully for this or that reasons.
Not bias anyone or trying my best to not doing that at least.

[ToXoS]

And is curious u say that about 6 man, because 2 days ago avocetti nd co where calling one of them cheater in tm at palik bo while he was in a 6 man

Sorry to burst your bubble dear friend, but that same group was telling that same Blackguard "why you are not a Chosen?" some days ago.

Chosen and Black orc are better tanks, and every player knew that since live server times.

On other side, i see the order players are triying to use the Blackguard weakness for try to nerf Marauder debuffs and make him weaker.

I am very fan of those people which don't wanna balance the game, and only use balance request for create a stompmaker realm which win 7 days a week, 24 hours per day.

Those same players are the ones which say:
White lion is balanced
Ranged knowdown is normal
Kotbs area snare each 5 seconds + long punt each 10 seconds + knowdown full time available is OK
Swordmaster spiritual damage + the huge spiritual resist debuff is perfectly right in a tank class.

While the Blackguard compared to Kotbs has no Knowdown full time available and need trigger block and 90-100 hate for make it 5 seconds (otherwise with lower Hate is 4 or 3 seconds one only), the area snare has a 20 seconds cooldown compared to the 5 seconds KoTBS has, and the punt has another 20 seconds cooldown instead of the 10 seconds in KoTBS.

Maybe Blackguard don't need more things, instead Kotbs punt should be 20 seconds cooldown, area snare 20 seconds cooldown, and make the KoTBS knowdown require a block too....
Oh and let's look Runefang tactic too powerfull effect or at auras buffing full group in a longer range, instead of single target each 20 seconds in 50 feets range like blackguard does, since we are talking about balance.

You could see thousands of KoTBS jumping from IC bridge

And you're doing the same thing as these order players here.
You're trying to use the blackguard weaknesses to have Kotbs nerfed.

[Tesq]

He tecnically said nothing regard nerf kobs because BG is ****, tough kobs/bo are on the same boat for the aoe snare + BG one is really bad, it would be better mirror it with IB one becuase even if the up time is anyway 50% be able to use it more times on different target is better; also 10 sec will never last with cleanse etc.
With out talk about being directional, and there are a tons of situation which is hard to use and can miss, for what like 10 feet less IB one is 360 degree.

[TenTonHammer]

Bg is aswell the most tanky of all the 2hs tanks in destru by a long shot . and probably the most efficent on that role . i dont think alot of people realize , what happens when u got a tank with spameable outgoing heal debuff and a mdps inc debuff intop of a healer . The debate about 2hs borcs pumping more dmg than bgs is aswell kinda hillarious because u prety much can see bos getting poped rather easy while BG keep on fighting . and more than often outdamaging black orcs due to a way way more superior staying power .

Aswell having probably one of the best and underrated abilitys in a 6 man enviroment wich is choking fury .

exept that you exel only at that, so you just have to be keep away from healers with snares (point you do not have a snare immunity and cc away from being aggressive make you melee or rdps dead).

Your niche from 3rd mastery is hardcountered and the outcoming heal debuff dont need to be spamable, actually a Choppa/WE can also provide it and bury it under other tons of dots if necessary. You also loose like double the time keep yourself selfbuffed than other tanks.

There is a big difference when bg outgoing heal debuff is spameable and choppa one is 30secs

The reality is that the benifits a no cd outgoing hd is limited in a 6 man environment and an order team worth their salt nor a healer for that matter won't let a BG stay on top of the healer to keep applying the debuff

additionally if your running around hitting healers in the back lines your not near your team to guard and protect the mdps

[Bozzax]

It is great 1v1 vs healers nothing else mate

[Aurandilaz]

It is great 1v1 vs healers nothing else mate

no sane healer loses in 1v1...

[ToXoS]

It is great 1v1 vs healers nothing else mate

no sane healer loses in 1v1...

Oh they loose, I can assure you that.
With my SH, a 4 sec silence and the heal debuff kill most of them.
They even manage to lose 1v2