DPS spec tank/healer Hypocrisy

[dansari]

I hear you raga, but I don't think more gear will solve any problems. Gear is what keeps people interested until they have it all, whereas if the game is fun, generally, people will continue to play after they obtain their bis gear (or they level a new character because they're having lots of fun and want to do it again). Or, in the case of a majority of people, you might get one piece of conq in two months from an RNG gold bag.

I personally think the RVR mechanics are more at fault than Guard for any loss of population we might be experiencing, but that doesn't change the fact that Guard is passive, boring, and selfless for a tank, and absolutely necessary in most situations for an mdps (90% of the time who need guard the most). Gate's ideas sound really cool (this would be implementing new abilities to replace the passive use of guard, but something like: on an 80s cd, IB and BO get the ability to sprint towards their allied target (80ft range) at 60% move speed, and upon reaching their target, reduce their target's damage taken by 50% for 10s. Something like that would be absolutely fun and make a tank feel more viable than Guard. Obviously that alone wouldn't be the only change you make, but some type of active shielding of allies (that's in line with the lore) would be much more fun that the current state of guard bot, as described.

[spikespiegel84]

Playing SM now, dps oriented, solo, no regrets.

If I need to help group I use chosen / kotbs (when and if ready)

Guard and taunt are a must, even with dps tank, but in a different way. While I spam taunt in melee for dps purpose, I won't guard a crazy permarage Slayer, but I will definitely switch to my healer if he's pressed.

Get addon everybody guard, can switch with F1-5 buttons.

For the rest of the comments, guard and taunt are Base dynamics. If it bothers you guys, sorry, try LoL.

[peterthepan3]

^ does your EBG always work? I love EBG and the f1-f6 function, but it always bugged.

[th3gatekeeper]

I hear you raga, but I don't think more gear will solve any problems. Gear is what keeps people interested until they have it all, whereas if the game is fun, generally, people will continue to play after they obtain their bis gear (or they level a new character because they're having lots of fun and want to do it again). Or, in the case of a majority of people, you might get one piece of conq in two months from an RNG gold bag.

I personally think the RVR mechanics are more at fault than Guard for any loss of population we might be experiencing, but that doesn't change the fact that Guard is passive, boring, and selfless for a tank, and absolutely necessary in most situations for an mdps (90% of the time who need guard the most). Gate's ideas sound really cool (this would be implementing new abilities to replace the passive use of guard, but something like: on an 80s cd, IB and BO get the ability to sprint towards their allied target (80ft range) at 60% move speed, and upon reaching their target, reduce their target's damage taken by 50% for 10s. Something like that would be absolutely fun and make a tank feel more viable than Guard. Obviously that alone wouldn't be the only change you make, but some type of active shielding of allies (that's in line with the lore) would be much more fun that the current state of guard bot, as described.

I agree with you man. Which is why I made that RVR thread...

I see Guard as the "solo/PUG" problem and RVR mechanics as the "bigger" problem BOTH of which lead to loss of players.

This is a video game, meant for fun. If a player cannot get online and play by themselves for a short period of time, this restricts who and how you can play ROR. (Example: A Choppa logging at 9pm PST for 20 minutes to do an SC or two - largely not worth it due to how dependent he is on guard).

You ALSO need "hard touch" systems, such a large RVR battles where people develop relationships have HAVE a dependence on eachother.

The problem I see, is ROR is trying to focus on just being a game for the "hard touch systems" and ignoring that sometimes people just want to play casually, that they dont always want to form a "premade" or be so reliant on others.

I think this level of reliance is great for RVR. That is the "hard touch" that often requires scheduling RVR times.
I think SCs are a great form of PVP that can be done in <15 minutes reliably. HOWEVER, the "hard touch" mechanic of Guard and how crucial it is to this game, prevents many players from doing "soft touch" gaming. Which alienates a HEALTHY player base that I think ROR needs to grow.

The RVR mechanics are also frustrating the "hard touch" player base. So there is a problem there too, and why we have lost population.

I think both are issues that should be looked at closely.

[warislove]

bigger problem is dps attacking tanks than tanks using guard imo

[Daknallbomb]

bigger problem is dps attacking tanks than tanks using guard imo

Oh yes! Today i saw two Choppa + we try Focus a guarded def tank

[th3gatekeeper]

bigger problem is dps attacking tanks than tanks using guard imo

Cant fix stupid. Can change game mechanics.

If a Slayer wants to spec into Willpower for disrupt. People should be allowed to make stupid choices. We cant remove stupid choices from them.

The difference being. That slayer picking Willpower doesnt REALLY impact my ability to play the game.

if I log onto my Mara late at night NA times and not 1 guild member is online, and there are <200 people total on the server... that DOES impact my ability to play. Not only am I unlikely to get an SC pop, even if I did get in an SC, I would get focused and nuked down without guard and healing.

Healing is a no brainer. People roll healers to heal. Tanks, on the other hand, dont always want to play tanks to just "follow around MDPS" they want to use active abilities (like Challenge) to reduce enemy damage. I think Challenge is a great tanking tool, and I would like to see more of these "Active" tanking abilities rather than "click guard and /follow".

Like I said, several ideas that I think would be COOL:
1) Easiest: Make Guard AoE Aura 25-30 feet. Give tank a selfish "increased chance to defend" benefit for using it. Maybe even just +10% more parry when using Guard. ALL tanks would use it. Now its up to the MDPS to stay in range of their tank and follow THEM around rather than tanks following MDPS.

2) Make guard an ability with a CD - almost like a "mini" Immaculate Defense (M4).

3) Another idea would be to increase "Challenge" to 50% reduced damage, and then make "Guard" something like a 50 foot AoE buff, lasts 10 seconds (15 sec CD) where all allies (and yourself) within 50 feet take 30% less damage for 10 seconds. So now some of the "utility" of Guard was moved to Challenge and Guard given selfish benefits as well as AOE benefit for the team. This sounds more FUN to me than the current Guard. Also involves "skill" in knowing when to use it paired with Challenge. Also gives a "downtime" so the counter to "guard" doesnt HAVE to be punt.... You can wait for the buff to go away or try and kill through guard...

4) You could even move some of "guard" onto HTL. Make HTL not require a shield, increases your chance to parry/disrupt/dodge by say 45%, defending all allies behind you up to 50 feet away. increasing their chance to parry/disrupt/dodge by 45% as well. Or "split damage" with them or whatever... So now HTL would be the "go to" to prevent someone from getting nuked... Not necessarily "guarding" them. You could then turn guard into some other benefit, like a mini "ID", etc.

There are just SO many ways to adjust this so its not only more fun, more active, but would be used by ALL tanks rather than just some (atm) and also given some of the "obtainability" to the MDPS who wants guard, aside from /tell the guy and begging him to use it....

The trick to all of these though is:
1) making it more fun, more of an ability that is used at key times, not necessarily completely passive and up 100% of the time.
2) Giving the tank some selfish incentive to use it. Which means a MDPS can reliably count on the tank TO use it, which means they can run by them, stay by them, and get "protection" in virtue of being with them.


Im not committed to these ideas, Im merely showing how many ways there are to adjust this, so its better for everyone. Sure, RVR would need to be considered. Part of me thinks though looking at things like HTL/Challenge and a rework of Guard to be a more "mini" ID - would lessen the impact of things like ID (morale pumps) which COULD make RVR more fun as well.... IDk.

[Kali14]

bigger problem is dps attacking tanks than tanks using guard imo

Cant fix stupid. Can change game mechanics.

If a Slayer wants to spec into Willpower for disrupt. People should be allowed to make stupid choices. We cant remove stupid choices from them.

Try attack DOK with guard and ignore his tank which use challenge on you. Idk does guard and challenge stack together but if you total ignoring enemy tanks and don't try sometimes kill them it's also stupid.

[warislove]

I guess we could give guard ability some experimental mode to check some new stuff with it. U convinced me gatekeeper.
Ofc when our lovely RoR team has a time to deal with it

[Daknallbomb]

I dont think guard is a Problem. I find heal is the problem But thats my opinion. Healing is massiv to easy with 40% crit heal and so on you can heal more than every dps can do. I think dps and HPs should be in a perfekt balance But i dont think its possibel to do