RP/Zealot Initiative/Willpower buff

[Jaycub]

With SM/BO being meta now even with this change the buff is pretty much useless. All their buffs are covered by Pots or tanks.

I don't really take to the argument that buffs or debuffs are useless because other careers have them. If a you have a RP then you don't need a STR potion. Right now there are not other potions to use, but if liniments make it back in there will be.

It is like saying that the IB armor debuff is useless if you have a WL. The IB doesn't need to use the skill which saves him a skill in the rotation, and when you look at group comp maybe if you bring a WL or an IB you don't have to worry about having an armor debuff.

Don't forget the RP / Zealot str buff is a multi-stat buff as well it works great if your in a build or class that uses double stats like melee SW or melee SH.

But I like focusing on the unique aspect of the skills. The granted skill is very unique. It is something that we do not see on any other careers. It would be great to expand on it.

You got me on other pots, didn't think of that been so long on this server with just stat pots.

But WL armor debuff (as well as mara) really shuts down the effectiveness of IB/BG, because that's one less thing they bring that a group would need when comparing them to other classes that can take their slot.

As far as the granted skills, we did actually come up with a good use for it in our 6v6, the 15 seconds DoT that RP gives is great for covering up slayer heal debuff on your target when running a group full of curses (IB/WL) since double dok just eats the slayers debuffs alive with group cleanse. and since it's 100ft range on even melee classes it doesn't disrupt our damage at all.

[Penril]

Again, as far as i know, the possibility of creating new skills is not there yet and maybe never will.

Also, take into account you have 4 runes, you already want an armor debuff one and a heal debuff (which is silly because rp and zealot have them already) You are going to run out of runes to put things on pretty fast.

No. I dont want new runes/marks. I just want to change the crappy granted abilities runes currently give (do 300 corp damage to your target over 9 seconds) into something better.

For example, you have Mark of the Spell Destroyer. Currently it increases your ally's Initiative and Willpower, and grants him the ability to inflict 500ish corp damage to a target over 9 seconds. I want to change the granted ability (the "inflict crappy damage to your target over 9 secs) to, for example, an armor debuff.

So you could grant this Mark to, say, a Magus. You buffed his Initiative and gave him an armor debuff as well. Now the Magus can armor debuff for the Choppa in your group. The idea is to open up new setups that currently are not considered viable.

Then again it's only a thought. Oh, and Zeal/RP healdebuff requires them to use a tactic, swap to DPS stance (in order to hit their targets, else they will be disrupted frequently), crit, and it only lasts 5 seconds. Too many variables to make it viable (except for DPS Zealots and Chaotic Agitation). But I see what you say: there would be no point in using those tactics if they could get a much better HD with a rune/mark.

So ignore the HD granted ability. Maybe make it Outgoing (there aren't many outgoing HDs in the game), an armor debuff, and something else for the remaining marks/runes. If done correctly it could be pretty fun.

[Valfaros]

Hmm I actually manage to kill people with these skills how about just fixing these horrible cooldowns on them one minute is just plain strange for the dmg they do but then again these ideas are all for the balance forum and since it's not open ....

If you change them to something like heal debuff, armor debuff or resi debuff you won't really end up with more combinations of classes instead you will just get the classes in the meta which offers the most dmg and currently just lack in support or debuffs to be viable. Do you really think someone is going to pick magus if you can grand your sorc a heal debuff so there is really no point in doing that.

If you think about outgoing healdebuff you will just end up with making BG less useful than he already is.

[bloodi]

But those are new abilities for the runes, that what i meant.

You could just copy paste existing debuffs but the problems are still there, first you only have 4 runes to work with, 3 if we consider the resurrection rune an okay one (imo, its not). That leaves us with what, armor, resist and heal debuffs for the 3 remaning runes?

If so, mind that the same applies as with the rp/zealot heal debuff, why would i ever spec into them if i can just put a healer in my group to give me that? That is saved points for every dps, not something we really want.

If we are talking about different abilities that are not so polarizing, i would welcome it a lot more, resistance rune giving a IB/BG magic shield, INT/WP giving a small hot and STR/BS/INT having an improved DoT so melees can still use them to dismount people that are at range are much better imo.

[Penril]

Hmm I actually manage to kill people with these skills how about just fixing these horrible cooldowns on them one minute is just plain strange for the dmg they do but then again these ideas are all for the balance forum and since it's not open ....

If you change them to something like heal debuff, armor debuff or resi debuff you won't really end up with more combinations of classes instead you will just get the classes in the meta which offers the most dmg and currently just lack in support or debuffs to be viable. Do you really think someone is going to pick magus if you can grand your sorc a heal debuff so there is really no point in doing that.

I changed my Inc HD example. As i mentioned, this is just an idea which still needs to be worked on. Ideally, marks would focus on buffs that OP classes currently have but UP ones lack. So these are irrelevant to the OP classes: an armor debuff mark would be useless to a Mara, for example; obviously the marks wouldn't be as strong as a skill you have to spec into, so in this case an armor debuff value of around 900 sounds ok. A Sav Mara would still have a 1.4k+ debuff and therefore no need for the Mark.

I could see a WE/Choppa group (no mara) if, for example, a mark granted the ability to debuff armor. Same with WH/Sla. Depending on what these marks give, we could potentially open up several new setups that no one likes to run atm.

@bloodi: Of course. I never said "this is what needs to be done!!!". I just pointed out an idea i have had for a while (Kurast reminded me of it, thanks) and any discussion about it is welcome. An inc HD is definitely a no-no. But focus on skills that current OP classes have (and UP lack) and you might end up with something interesting.

edit: Alternatively, Marks/Runes could grant something your realm doesn't have (but the other one does). Would make sense to keep the 1m CD in this case.

[bloodi]

But focus on skills that current OP classes have (and UP lack) and you might end up with something interesting.

The thing is that idea always sounds great till you realize that it probably means that those classes can stop speccing for them since the RP/zealot gives them the equivalent and they can get that and something else now, making the situation even worse.

I am okay with giving such skills to classes that can only use them themselves and will get into the group replacing the classes that have them, ie, giving engineer/magus a heal debuff is cool because they will probably replace another dps with a heal debuff.

Granting a healer a strong debuff just makes the already top of the chain have to use less gcds to do the same.

[Valfaros]

edit: Alternatively, Marks/Runes could grant something your realm doesn't have (but the other one does). Would make sense to keep the 1m CD in this case.

I like this idea finally a pounce for choppas^^ and a rKd for everyone but I think order won't really like that.

Since I only have two classes on order what would you give them can't really think of anything besides morale push and how are you going to grand this via a 1 min cd buff.

[Penril]

edit: Alternatively, Marks/Runes could grant something your realm doesn't have (but the other one does). Would make sense to keep the 1m CD in this case.

I like this idea finally a pounce for choppas^^ and a rKd for everyone but I think order won't really like that.

Run Away! rune. hahaha im just kidding at this point. Strong skills like those would be a no-no as well. Think of weaker skills that are still useful.

That's basically my idea, maybe someone can work on it and actually come up with alternative granted abilities from Marks/Runes. I don't have the time atm, but if no one does, i can come up with something tomorrow.

[Karast]

well my ideas are pretty basic,

absorb shield
hot
single target heal
action points 100-150 as a counter for AP draining
armor pen reduction debuff
weak detaunt 10-15%
weak snare
action point cost increase debuff
morale strip
anti CC buff
taunt like interrupt

[Landaren]

Yup, I like that list

instead of detaunt tho, like a self mini immaculate D 15% less incoming damage