Offhand weapon DPS contribution to abilties?

[Jaycub]

Some people seem very adamant about the fact that OH weapons are nothing more than stat sticks that only increase AA damage and add stats. But from looking at the tooltip damage of my torment skill on my WH it would seem that for every 1 extra weapon dps from my pistol it also adds 1 dps to torment.

For instance the calamitous pistol has...

25 dps
20 str
14 wp

and a Butchers Pistol has

23 dps
15 str
15 ini

W/ calamitous my torment does 278 damage, but with butchers it does 275. Yet there is only a change of 5 strength which should only account for 1 dps if weapon dps is not respected by the offhand. Those 2 missing dps seem to come from the pistol's... 2 higher weapon dps?

Yet even after explaining this people still seem to tell me that higher strength on the pistol will always do more damage. Are they right?

[CarlistRieekan]

Yet even after explaining this people still seem to tell me that higher strength on the pistol will always do more damage. Are they right?

It depends. Weapon DPS of course contributed to the ability damage on live servers (reference), but who knows if the same breakdown formulas work in RoR.

Overall damage is rather tricky to estimate due to all blocks, parries, dodges a disrupts. And here comes the advantage of stacking abilities - the higher strength generally means your (melee!) attacks are parried less. But if you're looking for raw numbers (without block, parries, etc.) then higher strength does not automatically guarantees higher abilities damage.

[Azarael]

We calculate weapon damage formulas from tooltips. If the offhand weapon affects the tooltip (protip: it almost always does), then it does on RoR.

Any weapon that contributes damage to the auto attack contributes damage to abilities unless that ability physically ignores the weapon. Hence, WH Absolution scales with offhand DPS ONLY, and ignores the mainhand DPS. Engineer grenades do not scale with WDPS because they're not a gun attack.

If anyone wishes to post in order to contradict me, I suggest they familiarize themselves with the WAR client.

[Jaycub]

We calculate weapon damage formulas from tooltips. If the offhand weapon affects the tooltip (protip: it almost always does), then it does on RoR.

Any weapon that contributes damage to the auto attack contributes damage to abilities unless that ability physically ignores the weapon. Hence, WH Absolution scales with offhand DPS ONLY, and ignores the mainhand DPS. Engineer grenades do not scale with WDPS because they're not a gun attack.

If anyone wishes to post in order to contradict me, I suggest they familiarize themselves with the WAR client.

Thanks this is really helpful, wouldn't of ever thought to ask about absolution.

[noisestorm]

I am wondering about something here though: Treachery path base-finisher from the WE (Puncture), that should be the equivalent of Absolution does profit from Both weapons though? So basically the basedamage is the same, but overall the WE will do more damage simply because of 2 weapons contributing? Or how is that working?

[Jaycub]

Another WH mechanic question, or something I'm trying to answer.

Jagged Edge vs 50% Auto attack haste

Jagged edge does 339 corp damage over 9 seconds. So I'm trying to set up a problem that would solve how much extra auto attack damage 50% haste would add in a 9 second period.

I Have a 2.0 speed sword, but when I check my speed tooltip when the haste pops it goes to 1.3 speed, which is more than a 50% increase? 1.0 speed should be 100% faster and 1.5 should be 50% right?

Also from reading other posts here it seems that the easiest way to calculate OH weapon auto attack damage would be to just tack on 46% of its dps to your main hand?

For instance if you auto attacks from main hand hit for 100, and your OH when it procs hits for 100 as well, then your average auto attack damage should be 146? And if your MH swing speed was 2.0 you could say that auto attacks are doing 73 damage per second on average?


I think If I can figure those questions out then I can calculate the flat damage, then it will be just comparing how well physical damage performs against corp when up against different types of targets (mitigation wise).

[TenTonHammer]

IMHO jagged edge is not worth using on any mdps class atm b/c:

1) crit chance even on high dps/burst classes is is still pretty low at this stage of the game
2) 300 dmg bleed over 9 SECONDS is very weak atm especially in this current situation where their are no H DEBUFFS and multiple healers means that the bleed dmg can easily be out healed


Down the line maybe jagged edge will be worth it, but not right now

Plus how do you expect to take on almost soft capped tough tanks with that

;^)

[Jaycub]

IMHO jagged edge is not worth using on any mdps class atm b/c:

1) crit chance even on high dps/burst classes is is still pretty low at this stage of the game
2) 300 dmg bleed over 9 SECONDS is very weak atm especially in this current situation where their are no H DEBUFFS and multiple healers means that the bleed dmg can easily be out healed


Down the line maybe jagged edge will be worth it, but not right now

Plus how do you expect to take on almost soft capped tough tanks with that

;^)

The sad thing is that 300 DoT is honestly the best thing a lot of MDPS have in terms of adding raw damage to their rotations. I believe some people who do a lot of testing have said it is currently even superior to +80 str.

Brute force is currently giving me +24 ability damage (which is what 120 should give? IDK if this is a bug or what?) And I would imagine +12 AA dps.

In a 9 second rotation thats like ~250-300 or so extra damage?

[Jaycub]

Might as well use this thread to ask another mechanical question.

How does cast abilities effect auto attacks on classes like Engi/SW/SH etc...? I know it stops AP regen, but does it also stop your auto attacks? For instance if I spammed nothing but gun blast on engineer for 10 seconds would I never get any auto attacks off in between those 5 casts?

[Azarael]

The auto attack timer continues to run while in a cast or channel. If the attack would have fired during the cast, it will be repeatedly set back by 100ms, so the auto attack ends up firing immediately after the cast finishes.