2H Tanks: 9001th thread edition

[TenTonHammer]

olfc is that the premis of this entire thread and discussion?

that 2h tanks are supposed to o something "better" but its not sooooo good that SnB cant do it too all the while having the benifits of SnB

even without stacking crits my chosen can still apply cs fine at a decent rate on targets with my SnB chosen

[peppex91]

I went 1v1 versus a DoK yesterday

The rare times i manage 1v1 a dok it's when i go full damage. U really tough to beat him just with low sustained dps with the help of the parry bonus and bubble? Don't tell me u had PB too...
I just use used spir debuff and EB DS mostly (sudden shift is the your best friend), don't even look at my hp and try to use taunt to interrupt whenever possible. FO is a must for such a fight, imo.
Anyway a tank should loose vs a melee healer, that's a fact.

The fact that SM is such a easy kitable target rely in the lack of a ranged cc, not QI.
Yeah... u have to dismount in order to SS, but u can do it by jumping while on air and keep the speed buff till u land. Then u should be in range for QI with the proper stance.
Your only tool with don't require melee range is Aet Grasp but u can't trust aoe range with the lag sadly.

[GodlessCrom]

olfc is that the premis of this entire thread and discussion?

that 2h tanks are supposed to o something "better" but its not sooooo good that SnB cant do it too all the while having the benifits of SnB

even without stacking crits my chosen can still apply cs fine at a decent rate on targets with my SnB chosen

I'm somewhat skeptical of the last part. How are you defining "a decent rate"? Because clearly, SnB chosen will apply crippling strikes to less targets less often than 2h chosen: you either apply it through single target damage, or through Blast Wave. ST damage obviously affects only one target, and Blast Wave has a 15 sec CD, whereas CS has only a 10 second duration. If you're not stacking crit, depending on the gear you have, you may have a 0-5% chance to crit. Standard enemy might have 20% chance to be crit, slightly higher if they are debuffed, lower if they stack Initiative. Your uptime of CS will be unreliable at best: yes, Blast Wave is an aoe, but only has 20 feet range, and a relatively low chance to crit. You will have a better chance of keeping CS up on whatever target you're focusing, but unless you keep switching targets (which can happen, I suppose) at a high pace, you're going to have CS up consistenly on that one target, plus perhaps one additional one from Blast Wave, 10 seconds out of every 15.

A 2h Chosen has at least 15% chance to crit, and since they're almost certainly wearing Duelist gear, that's gonna be at least 21% chance to crit from the gear itself and the set bonus. Rending Blade is only a frontal cone cleave, but has a 25 foot range, and is undefendable. More importantly, has a 5 second CD. With Blast Wave, Rending Blade, your ST damage, and a much higher chance to crit in addition to enemy's chance to be crit, it's pretty clear 2h Chosen is going to have much higher CS uptime on more targets than SnB Chosen could possibly hope to.

Now, I'm not saying 2h Chosen is good, or that it should be taken over SnB Chosen (I recently respecced to SnB myself). But clearly, it's far better at keeping CS up on both single and multiple targets.

[TenTonHammer]

I guess it all realtive for me it means it procs on target with enough frecquency that i dont feel im wasting a tactic slot, im wearing full duel because full deva is a pain in the arse to get

having said that however i run with a BO who runs stat steal aura and so i guess the iniative stat steal factors in a lot

[GodlessCrom]

Alright, fair enough.

[th3gatekeeper]

I do hope I'll see less of "omg nerf this class its OP!" and more of "oh wow this class works great now, lets get other classes up to that level too!". Don't take my toys just because you have less than I do.

This is my goal. I think before we go class by class to make adjustments however, it would be best to first look at 2H vs SnB and the more I have been thinking about this the last few days, the more I think the only way to change this dynamic is to provide a "hold the line" 2H equivalent ability that gives significant party benefits.

I personally believe the Chosen embodies the whole idea behind a "2h Tank" in that his tactics and capstone encounter synergize well in that offense = better defense for the team - in the form of damage reduction. Sure, SnB can get this, however at a diminshed rate. I dont wanna get into the details, just saying that seems to be a good idea on how to balance these things. Not that the 2H tank needs to be "leet deeps brah" but that it provides significant party utility where if someone joins a group and says they are a 2H tank, people dont roll their eyes. The chosen also provides the auras which are a huge benefit to the team.

So it has party buffs, and damage reduction on enemies.


To get back to the idea of a "2h Hold the Line" I think it might be beneficial if we did some brainstorm here as to what would be balanced, where it wouldnt/couldnt replace a SnB tank by being too good. But would be good enough to the point that running 2 tanks in a group wouldnt feel like a wasted space but a viable solution....

[Dreadspectre]

I do hope I'll see less of "omg nerf this class its OP!" and more of "oh wow this class works great now, lets get other classes up to that level too!". Don't take my toys just because you have less than I do.

This is my goal. I think before we go class by class to make adjustments however, it would be best to first look at 2H vs SnB and the more I have been thinking about this the last few days, the more I think the only way to change this dynamic is to provide a "hold the line" 2H equivalent ability that gives significant party benefits.

I personally believe the Chosen embodies the whole idea behind a "2h Tank" in that his tactics and capstone encounter synergize well in that offense = better defense for the team - in the form of damage reduction. Sure, SnB can get this, however at a diminshed rate. I dont wanna get into the details, just saying that seems to be a good idea on how to balance these things. Not that the 2H tank needs to be "leet deeps brah" but that it provides significant party utility where if someone joins a group and says they are a 2H tank, people dont roll their eyes. The chosen also provides the auras which are a huge benefit to the team.

So it has party buffs, and damage reduction on enemies.


To get back to the idea of a "2h Hold the Line" I think it might be beneficial if we did some brainstorm here as to what would be balanced, where it wouldnt/couldnt replace a SnB tank by being too good. But would be good enough to the point that running 2 tanks in a group wouldnt feel like a wasted space but a viable solution....

Could always just give something like "Break their Ranks!" which would be a 2H version of HtL but with an offensive ability theme.

Maybe a frontal cone or small aoe that causes everyone hit to have their defenses lowered(armor/parry/block/disrupt whatever, to be decided at a later time).

Something that embodies an armored 2H slaughter machine leading the Vanguard into enemy ranks.

[TenTonHammer]

Yeah im for giving HTL perhaps a diffrent use when you have 2h equipped

one thing that i hate from games is just straight up removing abilities from your hotbar because its loluseless or because it dosnt work with you playstle espically if its a core given ability i.e you cannot use HTL with 2h

i think that a counter style htl ability that debuffs defenses, morale generation etc would be a cool idea