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4K of salt

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Klesko
Posts: 67

Re: 4K of salt

Post#11 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:49 pm

dansari wrote:Pretty much what Druin said. Fester Arrow with Enchanted Arrow tactic is highly gimicky. It's great when you hit the 4k, but standing still for 3s normally means death for a SW these days. Skirmish spec is normally much better for most situations, and gives you a more consistent damage source.
If by "Gimmicky" you mean it's logical/intelligent game play, then we are in agreement. It's no less "gimmicky" than speccing for Forced Opportunity on a WL when nearly all your damage is physical... speccing for Runic Blasting on a RP and pairing it with Blessing of Grungi while spamming Grungi's gift... I could go on for quite some time with these "gimmicky" setups.

If any class dies from standing in place for 3s then they are woefully underleveled, undergeared, drowning in enemy players and/or all of the above. If it's the latter, then starting up a 3s cast ability while you're already under heavy duress (being mobbed by enemy) would be deemed quite foolish and is more of an issue of learning to play your character more intelligently. It doesn't seem logical in the slightest to start up a 3s cast timer while you're already being beaten down. If melee catches you at the end of the cast, well there's a lovely ability called Whirling Pin that SW has access to ( not taking into account anything else your allies are doing to help take down/cc/alleviate pressure from the enemy).

I'm curious, do you actually play a SW? If so, have you actually spent some time in the various specs? I'd hardly say Skirmish is better, let alone "much better." If your aim is to dish out AoE damage then most certainly Skirmish would be superior. In most other respects the Scout path would serve the SW better if I may be allowed to weigh in on that debate. Increased range from the stance (without having to tie up a tactic slot to reach parity for this) for increased survivability, as well as access to the best burst rotation possible for the class via FA + GA +FtW instant casts, which can all three be laid down in the course of just a single gcd delay (GA or FtW can be invoked at the end cast of FA, essentially sending out a double strike in one instance). It grants access to the 2 hardest hitting (by far) abilities the SW can bring to the table: FA +FtW. Skirmisher's a fine tree, and certainly one that you want to delve into even as a Scout SW, but it's folly to claim it's "normally much better" and even more absurd to claim it gives more consistent damage. For full disclosure my main is a 40+ SW in which I've played both specs, mostly sticking to Scenarios. I certainly feel the Scout tree deserves a bit more love than you are giving it :D Cheers!

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Klesko
Posts: 67

Re: 4K of salt

Post#12 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:52 pm

saupreusse wrote:Sw... Cool once every two minutes. Hits like a wet noodle the rest of the day
o.0

Your joke is neither funny nor clever. Move along.

P.S. VoN is on a 30s CD...

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saupreusse
Former Staff
Posts: 2646

Re: 4K of salt

Post#13 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:01 pm

Klesko wrote:
saupreusse wrote:Sw... Cool once every two minutes. Hits like a wet noodle the rest of the day
o.0

Your joke is neither funny nor clever. Move along.

P.S. VoN is on a 30s CD...
you lack a burst rotation outside of festerbomb. Sw is no threat compared to other dps.
Saup - RR 8x WP
Son - RR 8x AM

dansari
Posts: 2524

Re: 4K of salt

Post#14 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:22 pm

I'm a 60+ SW and I've done both specs. When I saw that EA went back to 100% ignore of corp resist, I thought I'd try out the fester spec. It was certainly rewarding, but my argument centers around it being viable in *most* situations. If you play mainly scenarios, I think fester is a fine spec as there are closer "safe" zones where you can hunker down to have enough time to lay down a fester bomb (in a lot of cases, you fight around flags or objectives), but this is not the case in open RVR. Most of the time, you're either kiting after a group you want to kill, or away from a zerg. This means your best damage threat is not being utilized, at all (SWs have enough trouble slotting all of the tactics they need.. you already need/want Masterful Aim, Powerful Draw, and Instinctive Aim.. do you really want Enchanted Arrows slotted when you're only going to be able to utilize your fester bomb on a viable target maybe 2-5% of the time?) I'd much rather take Leading Shots or Pierce Defenses for group utility.

The fester spec is also less consistent damage than your Spiral Fletched Arrow because your 3s cast has the same chance to be blocked or dodged than your 1s SFA (also worth mentioning that your fester bomb with m2 has the same chance to be blocked or dodged). You can certainly equip tactics like Discerning Offense, but since dodge/disrupt is the most popular defensive passive renown ability...

My spec right now is centered around consistent damage threat and finishing targets. In groups I'm heal debuffing constantly and working to utilize my rkd and silence so that the other dps in my group can finish targets (normally burst careers like WH, WL, BW). I'm specced for both Flanking Shot and Fell the Weak for this purpose. Bottom line: Fester Arrow is great in some situations, but not most because, especially as a SW, you are normally constantly moving. The fester bomb spec is gimicky because you're leaving it up to RNG to make it worth it: (on a 1min cd, fester has to crit, cannot be blocked/dodged, you can't be detaunted, and your target can't be guarded to make the whole spec actually worth it).

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<Salt Factory>

Klesko
Posts: 67

Re: 4K of salt

Post#15 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:26 pm

saupreusse wrote:
Klesko wrote:
saupreusse wrote:Sw... Cool once every two minutes. Hits like a wet noodle the rest of the day
o.0

Your joke is neither funny nor clever. Move along.

P.S. VoN is on a 30s CD...
you lack a burst rotation outside of festerbomb. Sw is no threat compared to other dps.
SW have stellar burst rotation when specced deep into Scout, unequaled by any other class when the crits are going off... VoN applied to FA + GA + FtW puts serious hurt on all but the most tankiest of characters. I play SW a lot and I've seen scenarios where enemy team was stacked with too many heals for Order to rack up any kills, but lo and behold, I'll switch target to destro toon not being focus healed and I put them in a daisy dirt nap before healers can swap target heal them... literally scoring the only kills my team is able to manage in an otherwise one-sided scenario. This isn't a one time anecdote that I describe...

Acid Arrow or a Forced Opportunity debuff applied before hand certainly makes SW all the deadlier.

But seriously, that's three hard hitting abilities that can all be applied in the course of a single gcd delay. That's the very definition of burst. If there's any other pressure on your target when your artillery strike goes off on a target and you're able to trigger the double damage on your FtW, then you applied more damage in that short period than basically any other class could even hope to. As it is with all other classes, you need crits to happen and that won't always be the case, but Bullseye tactic makes for a decent poor man's Combustion mechanic and should ensure some good times.

Any SW worth his/her salt specced for Shadow Sting and they're already worth their weight in gold at that point. Throw in the fact that they have access to knockdown, silence, slow, armor debuff regardless of their spec... completely debunks your statement that they're no threat compared to other dps. That's just silly of you to say. If you really wanted to ham it up you could make a SW with Bulls Eye, Leading Shots & Pierce Defenses to really make a buffing/debuffing fiend to silence this rhetoric of being "no threat."

You need only witness a good SW at the keyboard to change your tune :D

Klesko
Posts: 67

Re: 4K of salt

Post#16 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:28 pm

saupreusse wrote:
Klesko wrote:
saupreusse wrote:Sw... Cool once every two minutes. Hits like a wet noodle the rest of the day
o.0

Your joke is neither funny nor clever. Move along.

P.S. VoN is on a 30s CD...
you lack a burst rotation outside of festerbomb. Sw is no threat compared to other dps.
Fester Arrow is on a 5sec CD. What's the point of saying "outside of festerbomb"? If you specced it, you have access to it. If you have access to it, you have a burst rotation by your own admission. o.0

Edited for clarity. If you want to split hairs that's fine. I wasn't getting into the nitpicking of non-defined terms you threw out there. Festerbomb in my mind was literally the dropping of a Fester Arrow on an unfortunate destro, the results of which are obviously enhanced by such things as a crit or an active buff like VoN, str pot, M2 morale buff, etc. etc. which I thought went without saying.
Last edited by Klesko on Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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saupreusse
Former Staff
Posts: 2646

Re: 4K of salt

Post#17 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:38 pm

Festerarrow doesnt equal festerbomb which is m2+von+fa.
Saup - RR 8x WP
Son - RR 8x AM

Klesko
Posts: 67

Re: 4K of salt

Post#18 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:42 pm

dansari wrote: It was certainly rewarding, but my argument centers around it being viable in *most* situations. If you play mainly scenarios, I think fester is a fine spec as there are closer "safe" zones where you can hunker down to have enough time to lay down a fester bomb

you already need/want Masterful Aim, Powerful Draw, and Instinctive Aim.. do you really want Enchanted Arrows slotted when you're only going to be able to utilize your fester bomb on a viable target maybe 2-5% of the time?) I'd much rather take Leading Shots or Pierce Defenses for group utility.

My spec right now is centered around consistent damage threat and finishing targets. I'm specced for both Flanking Shot and Fell the Weak for this purpose. Bottom line: Fester Arrow is great in some situations, but not most because, especially as a SW, you are normally constantly moving.
I mean you make this argument around *most* situations but then concede FA could be a pretty good set up in scenarios... I mean that's pretty much all I play. *Most* situations for me involves scenarios, lol. So how does that work in your arguments? You didn't state, "Well Skirmisher is the best in non scenario play."

You kinda make my point for me by saying you want/need Powerful Draw for the build you tout. Focusing on Scout frees up this tactic slot (for Enchanted Arrows for instance).

If you have FtW than you spent AT MINIMUM 12 points into Scout tree. That's pretty heavy investment. You're no longer a Skirmisher spec but a hybrid, (not just a splash or a delve into the tree for GA or something like that). So since you're 11 points high in Scout you're basically playing a Scout character just as easily argued as that you're playing a skirmish character (the difference of course being in what stance you spend most of your time and therefore what skills you're mostly using). So I feel like you're basically coming from the same page as me, that Scout investment is a pretty solid choice compared to the supposedly *superior* skirmish spec.

I don't think it's fair to say you're using FA 2-5% of the time. Maybe if you set up a fantastical scenario in your head where you're never able to stay in place, then sure. It's not the most frequent used ability, certainly, but having access to an un-mitigatable Nuke in a tree that offers other solid returns on investment is at least comparable to playing a mostly skirmish heavy spec (that you're not even actually playing yourself).

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Daknallbomb
Posts: 1781

Re: 4K of salt

Post#19 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:53 pm

Klesko wrote:
saupreusse wrote:
Klesko wrote:
o.0

Your joke is neither funny nor clever. Move along.

P.S. VoN is on a 30s CD...
you lack a burst rotation outside of festerbomb. Sw is no threat compared to other dps.
Fester Arrow is on a 5sec CD. What's the point of saying "outside of festerbomb"? If you specced it, you have access to it. If you have access to it, you have a burst rotation by your own admission. o.0

Edited for clarity. If you want to split hairs that's fine. I wasn't getting into the nitpicking of non-defined terms you threw out there. Festerbomb in my mind was literally the dropping of a Fester Arrow on an unfortunate destro, the results of which are obviously enhanced by such things as a crit or an active buff like VoN, str pot, M2 morale buff, etc. etc. which I thought went without saying.
Fester arrow dont crit for 4 k without Moral Dude
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Klesko
Posts: 67

Re: 4K of salt

Post#20 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:56 pm

Daknallbomb wrote:
Klesko wrote:
saupreusse wrote: you lack a burst rotation outside of festerbomb. Sw is no threat compared to other dps.
Fester Arrow is on a 5sec CD. What's the point of saying "outside of festerbomb"? If you specced it, you have access to it. If you have access to it, you have a burst rotation by your own admission. o.0

Edited for clarity. If you want to split hairs that's fine. I wasn't getting into the nitpicking of non-defined terms you threw out there. Festerbomb in my mind was literally the dropping of a Fester Arrow on an unfortunate destro, the results of which are obviously enhanced by such things as a crit or an active buff like VoN, str pot, M2 morale buff, etc. etc. which I thought went without saying.
Fester arrow dont crit for 4 k without Moral Dude
Does the SW go afk after hitting FA? Is that the end of the burst rotation?

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