New gear kills the game

[porkstar]

I guess I never thought the game was about perfect balance or that it would magically become some phoenix, rather it was more about fleshing things out. Sure the genre is saturated and it keeps you hooked due to the sunk cost fallacy but damn...some really smart people were willing to facilitate a vehicle to continue experimenting with actual game-play, abilities, mechanics etc (grats on sham/AM. huge success that had nothing to do with gear progression) but apparently we chose knuckle-dragging gear farm.

Instead of playing this game for pixelated rewards, I have decided to make a sweet forge/foundry. I was going to make brass knuckles and **** but I think I should make a BRASS ARM with bad-ass attachments like knives, tiny fists, fingers (for pimp slapping), a door breacher etc. Going to make my own gear. Check out the video for the 300kw waste oil burner we finished yesterday.

Spoiler:

Click here to watch on YouTube

edit: also just noticed I have reached 666 posts. I may not write additional posts for a while

[Valfaros]

GW2 wasn't a game w/o gear progression. It may seem like that but it is only because the end game gear was trivial to get [exotics], but that state didn't last long did it? They said there wont be any lineral progression [just more stats mixes] after that tier but what did they do? Introduce fractals and ascended gear. Now that crap was a grind, you either spend time running and gathering mats or bought them of ah to do your DAILY crafting. Oh you missed a day? well crap son, now you are one day behind the rest as you were only able to craft one component per day. Sure you could buy some of em but if memory serves you HAD to craft some of them yourself.

I used to be main guild crafted before that because I had a lot of time and it was one of the things I could do to ease the grind for other members [esp those who hate crafting with passion or had limited play times due to RL obligations], so I went and leveled EVERY SINGLE one of the crafts so I could provide for my guildies. The ascended gear patch felt like a slap in the face and a big **** you for attempting arrangements like that, suddenly everyone had to get everything themselves to be able to get top gear. I was one of the few that could progress straight away, rest of ppl that relayed on me to provide the crafting goods, was forces to start from scratch and rank up crafting from 0.

You picture getting asc in GW2 way to hard to be honest and asc is highly optional because it only brings minor benefits. Even in the newest content exotic is more than enough to complete it. The only part of the game where it's not optional is high lvl fractals but it's also the part of the game where you endup with more asc gear than you have use for. Yes it was annoying at the beginning (like most things are) but didn't took long until you could just buy most of the things just with gold you got from playing the game.
You also forgot to mention that it doesn't apply at all to competitive pvp in gw2 (5v5). The only mode where it marginly applies is WvW but even then you won't loose a fight just because your opponent had asc and you not. 99/100 times it was because you (or your group) misplayed something and not because of stats difference.

It may seem like that but it is only because the end game gear was trivial to get [exotics], but that state didn't last long did it?

To answer this real quick extra yes exo didn't last long as endgear because they most certainly forgot somthing which they wouldn't want to change set by set afterwards. Therefore they implemented asc. So but asc gear is now top gear for what 2 years I guess we can say they were pretty close to their promise weren't they.

Now for warhammer gameplay. Well it is what it is mash your buttons and hope the enemy dies. Sometimes you mash them in a certain rotation but most classes don't have a lot of situational things to consider. The % dodge, disrupt, block could offer some intressting gameplay but are in warhammer just passives which you don't have to bother much once you got a certain %.

Don't even start on the pve in this game. I think I never saw more boring gameplay ever. Most bosses don't offer any intressting mechanic. I guess tomb in lotd was pretty nice at the beginning but to be honest after I got my stuff from it I never ever bothered doing them again because they were just plain boring by then.

Warhammer certainly is a lot of fun when played with other people but only so long until everyone from your grp achieved their goals. Afterwards is quickly gets boring which is why most then start to equip their other chars to keep them entertained.

[peterthepan3]

Gear in this iteration of WAR is both easy to get, and relatively balanced against lower-tier sets, i.e. difference between merc and dominator really isn't that big.

I echo Aza's comments in regards to some degree of carrot/stick being necessary in this game; the gameplay itself just isn't good enough to keep people hooked.

[Arteker616]

Each time new gear is added it just kills the games diversity. Everyone jumps on the exact same group comps as they are trying to gear them. Its like there's some law that des have to run with chosen bo mara choppa melee trains for the following months. Cant we just do away with it and make the game more interesting like it used to be in the lower tiers where people could gear multiple toons so you didnt see the same group comp time after time after time. Yes there will be some that stick to the fotm but gear grind just enforces it like its mandatory.

Not everyone jumps in the perfect meta grp composition for rvr . i realy dont think u do much rvr if u realy go along that line.
There is destru running mele trains as you pointed , there is destru running sorc sh grps , there is destru running dps dok choppa grp , there is even some only racial grps(black toof), and there is the weirdos wich run around as duo trio in lakes .and the most weird of all i swear i run into a 6 man full dark elf wih 2 doks 2 bgs and 2 wes(from poland i think).

In general order is the one wich run almost always the same composition of groups in rvr , with oner exception.

some maniacs are running a 6 man of x6 whs . wich are the most annoying thing ever
Honestly this at all sound like the cry of someone killed by a mele train . and venting in forums.

[Rekoom]

I think it is fundamentally true that huge gear gaps discourage more than they encourage people to play. The carrot has to be juicy yes but it has to feel close too.

I remember the last time I jumped into WAR (LotD patch I think) I read it was pure masochism to roll a fresh mDPS because you'd blow up in half a second. That is not fun for new players.

I don't think we are here yet and - to me - I thought the major good point of this serv is exactly that: devs acknowledging gear and RR should not have such a high impact on viability AND given some time (depending on how many sessions you play) you can actually get it without it being gated behind some kind of mechanic that punishes casual players. It is fine to lose more than you win while you gear up even if you play well but it is not fine to get crushed without a chance of retaliation.

I just come back from a stroll in BDO to test it since they allow 7 days free... Man what a grind. Forget PvPing before 4-6 months invested in the game hardcore style. Even then, the mechanics are boring and there is no need for varied playstyles or support characters. That game is gorgeous and deep and I still came back to WAR which starts to be honestly dated.

You may feel like this game is not interesting enough to keep people playing however keep in mind that for people that enjoy PvP mmos with collaborative gameplays this just might be, currently, the only viable thing to play (I've looked around).

[footpatrol2]

You can implement different carrots.

I was gunna put this up in the suggestion part.

Spoiler:

You can implement guild heraldry on the walls of the city for the top 5/10 guilds on the server. The guilds that are contributing the most to the RvR campaign. You could reset the heraldry once per month.

Lift the guild ranks from 20 to 40. Allow guild exp to exceed rank 40 and record the gains per month. Reset guild exp back down to rank 40 at the end of the month. The guilds with the highest contribution get their heraldry hung on the city walls. This also slightly discourages cross-realming. If you care about having your guild heraldry hung on the city walls then you won't cross realm as much. If you don't care you'll still cross realm.

This is a endless meaningless carrot but what it does is provide bragging rights. Something for the players to work towards.
This is one example out of many that could be done to maintain player interest.

[Spacecraft]

Footpat does actually have a good point.

[Dabbart]

Each time new gear is added it just kills the games diversity. Everyone jumps on the exact same group comps as they are trying to gear them. Its like there's some law that des have to run with chosen bo mara choppa melee trains for the following months. Cant we just do away with it and make the game more interesting like it used to be in the lower tiers where people could gear multiple toons so you didnt see the same group comp time after time after time. Yes there will be some that stick to the fotm but gear grind just enforces it like its mandatory.

Hmm... Is this a post/thread against gear progression or the "meta"? Most of the responses see it in the light of gear progression. I happen to read this as an issue with the characters that players perceive as their "mains". The fun of the game being locked at the lower tiers, was that you could have tons of toons all fully geared in whatever spec your heart desired. It also had a far lower avg playerbase than we do with T4/RR80 cap.

If groups feel that a particular set-up is the best, then so be it. Honestly, each realm has 3 tanks and 3 healers to choose from. We don't have 30+ hero's to pick, hence the options in gear/spec. This is an old game, where strategies have been tried and tested years ago(that was one of the really exciting things about the Balance section and class alterations. It could actually change the "meta"). People will stick to the cookie cutter systems that work, with the players they have to choose from.

After all these years... maybe come up with a counter to it?

[ToXoS]

Getting new gear become a grind ONLY if it's boring to you.
If you still have fun playing the game, then it's not a grind, just a matter of patience.

[roadkillrobin]

Tweaking classes, resseting renown as a season thing, creating season scoreboards and ladders guild pride etz, all work as a carrot to keep players around aswell as making em come back at the beginning of a new season.
When RoR was the moast active i think Stalker was the highest gear in the game. Something you could complete in 1 day easily. Players were also much more creative in what gear they slotted in aditional to Stalker. Gear on AH had much higher demand. Now we basicly get instructed what to slot as more and more items gets class restrictions and more definite BiS gear gets released. Everyone will end up slotting the same gear, same specs, same tactics if game dictates it to much. That creates a static enviroment that people get bored of and leave.
If all gear in the same tier is created for varity instead of power creeps and stop making it months long grind for it i think people would enjoy the diversity the game can offer instead feeling like it's just a grind for your main.

This is exactly what happened with the rr81-100 patch on live. People left coz they didn't want to do the grind again. And other people left coz there was no variaty in the gameplay as 1 BiS setup and the grind was to large to get diversity from playing alts.

Don't do this mistake pls.