Considering the single target Magus post the changes to Bolt of Change

[Rozackroo]

Topics made to suggest combat system, gameplay or balance changes will be locked.

Öm does this Topic mean that we can't talk about balance changes in suggestion forum but it's totally okay in general? Just because no lock since 6 Page while others get it after 2 posts.

[Tankbeardz]

no its harder due to lacking auto attack, and in general raising disrupt is easy as hell compared to dodge . lacking a good morale to increase burst

Autoattack does incredibly low damage unless it is a negative toughness SH / WE. You can try it out on an engi if you like. But hands down magus ST rotation with BoC is much better and more consistent dps. If you added into the crit tactic / crit damage tactics it makes a huge difference. Remember auto attack only triggers when not casting / channeling / moving and on most targets it is taking 50% mitigation after debuff. Armor is a huge issue for engi, everyone one runs with armor pots, but resist buffs depend on the group comp and if knights are in range. We would gladly trade auto-attack, ws, and M2 to just have magical damage. The average target rocks a base 75-60% mitigation destro side in your average 2/2/2 premade. Doks / marauders are pretty much tanks and will gut any dps you do through mitigation in ST. There is not an engi out there who knows what they are talking about that wouldn't trade in a heart beat. We might have a few niffty tactics, and a nice M3, but you win it hands down on stat stacking, and damage types. It is a night and day difference, and if you can't take my word for it, try it yourself and see. A few scenarios against solid premade groups and you'll have had enough.

Also there is no big difference between dodge / disrupt. Wisdom based disrupt is countered directly by int. We are in the same crappy boat when it comes to gear based avoidance / renown avoidance / htl. It sucks all around.

As far as morale goes M2 is not as good as it used to be, and any decent group / players watch for it, and even with it a 3k snipe only hits for 1k when 75% is mitigated into the ground, it only matters in pug warbands and keep defenses for sneaky snipers, in a group situation it is unreliable and easily countered. Many now run focused mind just as maguses do. If you are talking about M3. Magus does have some good options, but unless if you are in a keep siege or heavily running + morale, 3 is a long way to wait in a scenario group, often too long to make worthwhile.

The grass is always greener thing is a poisonous view point for us. We both have advantages, the others don't, but we also share many of the same problems with the same wonky bad mechanic, and over reliance on key abilities.

I dunno man...my sub 40 engi was able to get more stable dps burst than my almost 60 magus (at the time). Sure, killing tanks took longer...but engi, hands down, has it easier than magus right now.

Engi m2 is still amazing...I wouldn't suggest wasting it on a snipe though since engi has the ability to pour out much faster dps.

Magus m3 is garbage.

[Arteker616]

no its harder due to lacking auto attack, and in general raising disrupt is easy as hell compared to dodge . lacking a good morale to increase burst

Autoattack does incredibly low damage unless it is a negative toughness SH / WE. You can try it out on an engi if you like. But hands down magus ST rotation with BoC is much better and more consistent dps. If you added into the crit tactic / crit damage tactics it makes a huge difference. Remember auto attack only triggers when not casting / channeling / moving and on most targets it is taking 50% mitigation after debuff. Armor is a huge issue for engi, everyone one runs with armor pots, but resist buffs depend on the group comp and if knights are in range. We would gladly trade auto-attack, ws, and M2 to just have magical damage. The average target rocks a base 75-60% mitigation destro side in your average 2/2/2 premade. Doks / marauders are pretty much tanks and will gut any dps you do through mitigation in ST. There is not an engi out there who knows what they are talking about that wouldn't trade in a heart beat. We might have a few niffty tactics, and a nice M3, but you win it hands down on stat stacking, and damage types. It is a night and day difference, and if you can't take my word for it, try it yourself and see. A few scenarios against solid premade groups and you'll have had enough.

Also there is no big difference between dodge / disrupt. Wisdom based disrupt is countered directly by int. We are in the same crappy boat when it comes to gear based avoidance / renown avoidance / htl. It sucks all around.

As far as morale goes M2 is not as good as it used to be, and any decent group / players watch for it, and even with it a 3k snipe only hits for 1k when 75% is mitigated into the ground, it only matters in pug warbands and keep defenses for sneaky snipers, in a group situation it is unreliable and easily countered. Many now run focused mind just as maguses do. If you are talking about M3. Magus does have some good options, but unless if you are in a keep siege or heavily running + morale, 3 is a long way to wait in a scenario group, often too long to make worthwhile.

The grass is always greener thing is a poisonous view point for us. We both have advantages, the others don't, but we also share many of the same problems with the same wonky bad mechanic, and over reliance on key abilities.

having acces to magus and engi both 40+, i disagree with you.
Auto attack ranged is a hugue bonus for engi over magus, specialy when u droping rotations on squishy targets. u use the six man fotm to get away with ur logic. because using ur logic double ktbo slayer gonna tear up any magus up trying to assist on rotation agaisnt guarded x2 healed up targets .

there is a hugue difference btw dodge /disrupt , disrpt is way easier to stack than dodge just by using precusor gear u allready can pimp up prety much 8% disrupt.

u have tactics to enable u lower the enemy dodge / block in a way a magus cannot dream . aka piercing defenses and signal flare agaisnt whitered soul 5% disrupt reduction .

u have a m2 morale wich enable u to burst harder than any magus can do. even on his nerfed status , and in the case of cannon smash a superb finisher to wounded tanks .

in the case magus want to play tank style he doesnt have nowhere close the tools to pull the **** a engi can do , thanks to racial tactics .

using the excuse about marauder is funny since destro can say the same about wl tankines. with the difference mara has a way higher chance to be crited than wl.

i want you please to point me towards a a adventage a magus has over a enginer.

[Arteker616]

no its harder due to lacking auto attack, and in general raising disrupt is easy as hell compared to dodge . lacking a good morale to increase burst

Autoattack does incredibly low damage unless it is a negative toughness SH / WE. You can try it out on an engi if you like. But hands down magus ST rotation with BoC is much better and more consistent dps. If you added into the crit tactic / crit damage tactics it makes a huge difference. Remember auto attack only triggers when not casting / channeling / moving and on most targets it is taking 50% mitigation after debuff. Armor is a huge issue for engi, everyone one runs with armor pots, but resist buffs depend on the group comp and if knights are in range. We would gladly trade auto-attack, ws, and M2 to just have magical damage. The average target rocks a base 75-60% mitigation destro side in your average 2/2/2 premade. Doks / marauders are pretty much tanks and will gut any dps you do through mitigation in ST. There is not an engi out there who knows what they are talking about that wouldn't trade in a heart beat. We might have a few niffty tactics, and a nice M3, but you win it hands down on stat stacking, and damage types. It is a night and day difference, and if you can't take my word for it, try it yourself and see. A few scenarios against solid premade groups and you'll have had enough.

Also there is no big difference between dodge / disrupt. Wisdom based disrupt is countered directly by int. We are in the same crappy boat when it comes to gear based avoidance / renown avoidance / htl. It sucks all around.

As far as morale goes M2 is not as good as it used to be, and any decent group / players watch for it, and even with it a 3k snipe only hits for 1k when 75% is mitigated into the ground, it only matters in pug warbands and keep defenses for sneaky snipers, in a group situation it is unreliable and easily countered. Many now run focused mind just as maguses do. If you are talking about M3. Magus does have some good options, but unless if you are in a keep siege or heavily running + morale, 3 is a long way to wait in a scenario group, often too long to make worthwhile.

The grass is always greener thing is a poisonous view point for us. We both have advantages, the others don't, but we also share many of the same problems with the same wonky bad mechanic, and over reliance on key abilities.

I dunno man...my sub 40 engi was able to get more stable dps burst than my almost 60 magus (at the time). Sure, killing tanks took longer...but engi, hands down, has it easier than magus right now.

Engi m2 is still amazing...I wouldn't suggest wasting it on a snipe though since engi has the ability to pour out much faster dps.

Magus m3 is garbage.

wasting m2 on snipe is a noob movement, m2 is for turning focused fire into target doom.

[lastalien]

LoL topic.

Same
I need 1 sec Festering arrow at SW. Just need. Just i see that.

And all who play magus - OC It is necessary!111

[Karast]

(for those that saw before the edit, way too salty before coffee)

My original posts still stands, I am talking about premades where a lot of this thread is focused. In a proper 2/2/2 the squishy dps is going to be guarded, and no matter what you will have 3-4 high armor targets since dok / mara are a mainstay of every group. You can say well go tanky! But there is not place in a premade for a tanky dps, that doesn't do dps. You are not a tank, you don't have guard, a proper group will stomp you since you can't kill anything with 1 lone dps.

As for Tankbeardz and the M2 / snipe comment. If you got fast keybinds you can queue snipe then M2 before it lands, and follow with focused fire, it doesn't work all the time but it does sometimes. But even with M2 / focused fire. All it takes is a bit of CC or a taunt to break it in a premade group. You guys rag on SE but it's not horrible, and you win hands down with M4s.

But if you really think engi has the better of it in premades, the more to you I guess. The difference is hands down in favor of magus imo. The extra survivabililty is massive, and it is not like engi has more tactic slots than magus does. We just can't have everything. You gotta give up something good to get the armor tactic and that makes a big difference in dps.

[TheSockPuppet]

I really like how engies are all like "Yeah, we are balanced because we only have 4 tactics slots".

It's like an american soldier saying "Yeah, we are fighting on equal terms with militias from third world countries because we can only carry 70 kilos of equipment before our spine snaps in half".

[Tankbeardz]

(for those that saw before the edit, way too salty before coffee)

My original posts still stands, I am talking about premades where a lot of this thread is focused. In a proper 2/2/2 the squishy dps is going to be guarded, and no matter what you will have 3-4 high armor targets since dok / mara are a mainstay of every group. You can say well go tanky! But there is not place in a premade for a tanky dps, that doesn't do dps. You are not a tank, you don't have guard, a proper group will stomp you since you can't kill anything with 1 lone dps.

As for Tankbeardz and the M2 / snipe comment. If you got fast keybinds you can queue snipe then M2 before it lands, and follow with focused fire, it doesn't work all the time but it does sometimes. But even with M2 / focused fire. All it takes is a bit of CC or a taunt to break it in a premade group. You guys rag on SE but it's not horrible, and you win hands down with M4s.

But if you really think engi has the better of it in premades, the more to you I guess. The difference is hands down in favor of magus imo. The extra survivabililty is massive, and it is not like engi has more tactic slots than magus does. We just can't have everything. You gotta give up something good to get the armor tactic and that makes a big difference in dps.

Magus / Engi will always be useless in 6v6. If you are fighting a proper premade with decent players, you won't be doing much but providing lol fluff.
If you are talking about a general 6 man group set up...why not go 1 tank 1 melee (heal debuff pref) and 2 range dps? There is no need for guard on the range dps most of the time.
M4 is only useful in warbands. Not everyone likes to warband it up in RVR.
Not sure where you are getting this extra survivability from....I find them both to be utterly useless in melee range and detaunt is the only thing that keeps you alive vs casters. If I want, I can go tanky on either toon (engi gets way more armor) but my damage suffers. Magus provides better pullbot spec due to magic cone spam...that's about it.

[Karast]

(for those that saw before the edit, way too salty before coffee)

My original posts still stands, I am talking about premades where a lot of this thread is focused. In a proper 2/2/2 the squishy dps is going to be guarded, and no matter what you will have 3-4 high armor targets since dok / mara are a mainstay of every group. You can say well go tanky! But there is not place in a premade for a tanky dps, that doesn't do dps. You are not a tank, you don't have guard, a proper group will stomp you since you can't kill anything with 1 lone dps.

As for Tankbeardz and the M2 / snipe comment. If you got fast keybinds you can queue snipe then M2 before it lands, and follow with focused fire, it doesn't work all the time but it does sometimes. But even with M2 / focused fire. All it takes is a bit of CC or a taunt to break it in a premade group. You guys rag on SE but it's not horrible, and you win hands down with M4s.

But if you really think engi has the better of it in premades, the more to you I guess. The difference is hands down in favor of magus imo. The extra survivabililty is massive, and it is not like engi has more tactic slots than magus does. We just can't have everything. You gotta give up something good to get the armor tactic and that makes a big difference in dps.

Magus / Engi will always be useless in 6v6. If you are fighting a proper premade with decent players, you won't be doing much but providing lol fluff.
If you are talking about a general 6 man group set up...why not go 1 tank 1 melee (heal debuff pref) and 2 range dps? There is no need for guard on the range dps most of the time.
M4 is only useful in warbands. Not everyone likes to warband it up in RVR.
Not sure where you are getting this extra survivability from....I find them both to be utterly useless in melee range and detaunt is the only thing that keeps you alive vs casters. If I want, I can go tanky on either toon (engi gets way more armor) but my damage suffers. Magus provides better pullbot spec due to magic cone spam...that's about it.

Its the base toughness from not having WS, aegis, and then having more renown points to play with. But at this point no engi should spec WS, but we still have a lot of it floating around. It's 100% a junk stat at this point for engi. If an engi tries to go WS they have to give up a lot to get a reasonable amount, and the difference shakes out to 250+ toughness, and a bit of wounds which doesn't sound like much but helps alot with mitigation vs dots. Either classes gets into 40ft of a melee they are toast but you can survive range a bit better.

[Tankbeardz]

(for those that saw before the edit, way too salty before coffee)

My original posts still stands, I am talking about premades where a lot of this thread is focused. In a proper 2/2/2 the squishy dps is going to be guarded, and no matter what you will have 3-4 high armor targets since dok / mara are a mainstay of every group. You can say well go tanky! But there is not place in a premade for a tanky dps, that doesn't do dps. You are not a tank, you don't have guard, a proper group will stomp you since you can't kill anything with 1 lone dps.

As for Tankbeardz and the M2 / snipe comment. If you got fast keybinds you can queue snipe then M2 before it lands, and follow with focused fire, it doesn't work all the time but it does sometimes. But even with M2 / focused fire. All it takes is a bit of CC or a taunt to break it in a premade group. You guys rag on SE but it's not horrible, and you win hands down with M4s.

But if you really think engi has the better of it in premades, the more to you I guess. The difference is hands down in favor of magus imo. The extra survivabililty is massive, and it is not like engi has more tactic slots than magus does. We just can't have everything. You gotta give up something good to get the armor tactic and that makes a big difference in dps.

Magus / Engi will always be useless in 6v6. If you are fighting a proper premade with decent players, you won't be doing much but providing lol fluff.
If you are talking about a general 6 man group set up...why not go 1 tank 1 melee (heal debuff pref) and 2 range dps? There is no need for guard on the range dps most of the time.
M4 is only useful in warbands. Not everyone likes to warband it up in RVR.
Not sure where you are getting this extra survivability from....I find them both to be utterly useless in melee range and detaunt is the only thing that keeps you alive vs casters. If I want, I can go tanky on either toon (engi gets way more armor) but my damage suffers. Magus provides better pullbot spec due to magic cone spam...that's about it.

Its the base toughness from not having WS, aegis, and then having more renown points to play with. But at this point no engi should spec WS, but we still have a lot of it floating around. It's 100% a junk stat at this point for engi. If an engi tries to go WS they have to give up a lot to get a reasonable amount, and the difference shakes out to 250+ toughness, and a bit of wounds which doesn't sound like much but helps alot with mitigation vs dots. Either classes gets into 40ft of a melee they are toast but you can survive range a bit better.

Toughness is overrated unless you can stack a heck of a lot of it. Magus tops out at around 400ish and DPS takes a "yuge" hit.