RVR new system feedback

[Tiggo]

Those six days were enough for me to lose all incentive to play, sadly.

wow... if that is your attitude an alpha state game is clearly not your kind of game.

[Dabbart]

2 points, 1. Both sides need to utilize the strategies they often talk of, inside the ORvR zone. Stretch the enemy line, and fight around the BOs. Can't take the keep? Well. Go park on BOs or gank around. If you stand in front of the keep, ofc the defenders are going to sit and defend... Hell for a real good time, Push into outer gate-house and defend there. If you can't take the defenders and the Lord, just take the gatehouse and make em come fight you. I see it all the damned time. From organized guilds that I know are in Coms. One side is defending a bridge, obliterating everything that comes across. Do they go around and flank? No. Do they try and sit for a morale push, seeing as we obviously aren't puhsing? No. They kept coming in predictable waves kindly shouting in /s so we can hear them(instead of /shout so only your realm can...) counting down pushes...

Overall "tactics" in RoR generally revolve around different variations of Charge!, Sit and Bomb, wild blobs pulsing back and forth over a particular set of defensive postions/arbitrary lines, and the occasional highly coordinated group that runs circles around WBs and smashes zergs. So it'd be nice if both realms could stop harping back to any point in time when Solid Strategies where utilized.

2. I would like a reason for the defenders to risk fighting outside the keep. If there was some sort of incrementally increasing debuff to a keep and all of it's defenders based upon time if it runs out of resources, or hasn't received any for a period that could help alleviate the issues with stalemates. Call it starving them out. It is a well established tactic, they have a defence that you either physically can't assault, or would suffer enough casualties that the attack might falter, they barricade and wait 'em out. Maybe give increased RR rewards for bringing resources to a Starving keep, or a 0rank Keep with excessive AAO. I am aware of the system based on population, and general weakness' with having a 0rank keep. This would be in addition.

I enjoy the current system, right up to the point that the attacking side has enough resources to take/threaten the inner door and the BOs become obsolete in so many players minds. Putting aside all the Bugs, and focusing on how it "should" work. Personally, I dislike giant blob battles, so other than the renown and rare loot gain, keep fights bore/annoy me. So I will admit to a bias towards somewhat open field fights, where numbers only matter if I want that one particular spot, and in general the ORvR system provides this. I have been in tons of back and forth fiasco's and a bunch of good fights. So however the system moves forward, it's far better than 2 months ago.

Also. Really? 6 days and you lost all incentive to play? Your creation date is Feb, so you where around when T3 was cap and the Lakes just took a giant crap, and we had 0 ORvR... How is this so much worse? Maybe just take a little break and come back in a few weeks when the kinks have been worked out?

Edit: Wow that looked weird. Thanks Tiggo. Thought something went funny with my magnification or something... lol

[Tiggo]

tried to fix your post formatting wise dabbart, but i failed lol ^^

so i had to delete the quote or the thread had imploded ^^

[DonCarlos]

@Dabbart: +1 to your post.
I like the idea of "starvation" and I take the idea more literally.
Instead of more incentives to fight outside, why not limit the ways to fight inside a keep.
What about disabling "ressing" in keeps, so that players have to respawn at the warcamp.
This could be tied to other conditions (may be no ressing when Keep is at rank 0, or when inner/outer door is destroyed, or even when the realm owns no Battle Objective etc.)

[roadkillrobin]

Would it bee possible to add a 2ndary wincon to flip a zone, like if you hold all BO's for 30min (just an example time) the zone flips to the realm who controlls the BO's? (starve out)

[Tesq]

i like dabbart idea for the starving

---> i suggest the defendere need unless there is x% of aao to take back bos to get supply otherwise the continuosly siege will reduces their morales load till 0 in x% time; if there is aao there is no problem takign a keep and so def have alredy cannons.

[Azarael]

2. I would like a reason for the defenders to risk fighting outside the keep. If there was some sort of incrementally increasing debuff to a keep and all of it's defenders based upon time if it runs out of resources, or hasn't received any for a period that could help alleviate the issues with stalemates. Call it starving them out. It is a well established tactic, they have a defence that you either physically can't assault, or would suffer enough casualties that the attack might falter, they barricade and wait 'em out. Maybe give increased RR rewards for bringing resources to a Starving keep, or a 0rank Keep with excessive AAO. I am aware of the system based on population, and general weakness' with having a 0rank keep. This would be in addition.

To touch upon this:

1) The recent change to refire rate of cannons and artillery based on keep rank vs supply (to simulate ammunition stock reduction) is within the scope of this suggestion, I think. Admittedly it is bugged to hell right now and nerfs the cannons and artillery horribly, but eh. Patchhammer!

2) The original version of Diminishing Rations was meant to be a weak emulation of exactly this concept: starving players out of the keep. Would you use DR (linked to keep rank) or would you use something else? I'm all ears.

[Dabbart]

I like the damage increase and reduction system based upon player pop and BO/Supply count personally. The starvation idea would specifically only come into play after a set period of either having a 0rank keep and 0 BOs for that time, or excessive pop with no resources in reserve. It should take time and quite a lot of cooperation to achieve. Once it's been hit though, I foresee a "countdown to we're ****" system. Either get resources now or you wont have the strength to fight anymore.

As for the type of debuff, I think thematically a scaling wounds debuff would be the way to go. I don't want to give an auto win to either side, for fear that it would become the go-to strategy. But if the issue is that you just can't push past/break the defenders line, even with the diminishing returns, this should help to tip the scales. Reducing damage isn't something I wish to stack or increase, I want to incentivize fighting and clever tactics. Not provide any EZ time based win.

Wounds debuff a can be a scary proposition, since it makes general wipes that much easier. The incentive to ensure that you never reach a certain lvl of starvation, otherwise you just couldn't physically hold against the base dps should get defenders at least trying to push. And any incentive one can add to smuggling in resources to a well defended keep would just add to that. Now, should the debuff apply outside radius of keeps? I think so. Possibly not at the same
Lvl, but yes. If you are outside the keep ignoring BOs, then your ganking should be more difficult...

Whether the debuff would apply to any NPC defenders, the lord, ands it's actual level I will refrain from comment upon. One thing I would say, is that any starvation system should require at least the outer door down or being attacked, to alleviate any thoughts to just split up your forces and park on the BOs ignoring the keep until it reaches a suitable atarvation lvl. A side needs to actually be seige the defenders for any effect.

written on phone. Hope this is clear.

[Tiggo]

starvation will be a completly unique feature for rvr and something i advocated for a long time. im all for it!

[Grobbok]

two weeks and order still dominate in rvr, destro can't take keep with 0* even when have keep with 5*.