DoK/WP with book/chalice...

[ThePollie]

I don't think anyone has suggested nerfing their melee heals. Pretty sure Morf wasn't including melee heals in his "all dok/wp heal" comment.

It's important enough a distinction to mention it.

[TenTonHammer]

i thought we all agreed that cast range debuffs would be something that only applied when you equipped a chalice/tome

[ThePollie]

i thought we all agreed that cast range debuffs would be something that only applied when you equipped a chalice/tome

An absolutely moot point, considering no melee healer would ever use tome/chalice over a two-hander, nor would they have the willpower and mastery to overcome the potential -40% debuff from tactics to ever warrant casting them.

[Morf]

Not sure about all. I would start only with their Group Heal and work from there, adjusting as needed. If it is a disaster, we roll back.

Time to test things after all, right? Alpha and all that...

I make you right, all heals may be a bit severe but for me all heals that affect more then 1 target, so that would be group hot, group cleanse, group absorb and group heal leaving only st hot, ap heal and the shitty heal+hot ability.
Wp's/dok's have the def capabilities to be close to the action, 100% uptime aoe detaunt, absorb on crit tactic and high armor values.

[bloodi]

I really dont see what good does the range change do, they can perfectly function at that range and its where they are most of the time for smiting people.

To me it just seems a change for the sake of changing anything where the problem with them its not their range, at all.

[Sulorie]

A range nerf doesn't force them to stay at frontline, instead it forces other classes to stay close enough to be in heal range.

Just think for a minute what they are doing in a fight to maintain their healing.
Without regen procs from sov set they run dry very fast, when they have to spam their healing.
Taking DOK as example they use essence lash on cooldown, taking them close to the fight.
If possible they might hit an enemy non-dps player once in a while.
The 2nd major SE source is their regen channel. It's cooldown is so short, it's almost a crime!
Double the cooldown and backline SE regen drops significantly.
Ofc alter the sov set procs when the time comes.

In short, change their regen capabilities to force them to frontline.

[Morf]

A range nerf doesn't force them to stay at frontline, instead it forces other classes to stay close enough to be in heal range.

Just think for a minute what they are doing in a fight to maintain their healing.
Without regen procs from sov set they run dry very fast, when they have to spam their healing.
Taking DOK as example they use essence lash on cooldown, taking them close to the fight.
If possible they might hit an enemy non-dps player once in a while.
The 2nd major SE source is their regen channel. It's cooldown is so short, it's almost a crime!
Double the cooldown and backline SE regen drops significantly.
Ofc alter the sov set procs when the time comes.

In short, change their regen capabilities to force them to frontline.

You are right, but for me changing something like that may cause a huge backlash from wp/dok healers(which is the majority of healers who play the game), i think ppl would be less likely to complain and feel hard done by if the first change to test is to reducing range of all heals that affect more then 1 target, and for the sake of playing devils advocate one could argue pure ap healers have the luxury of ap pots where dok/wp does not

[Penril]

I really dont see what good does the range change do, they can perfectly function at that range and its where they are most of the time for smiting people.

To me it just seems a change for the sake of changing anything where the problem with them its not their range, at all.

I don't entirely agree with it tbh but i think there is some justification for at least testing the change. Let me quote NotWingz:

DoK/Wp are better ae healers, when you fight more than 6 enemies and there is a lot of ae involved, DoK and WP are necessary. For single target heal you need a single target healer though. In our setup it is a meleedok. Which makes us competitive in 6on6.
Before we played tripple dok we played with shami/zelot almost always.
I would love to play with shami and zelot again but it makes our setup less stable vs uneven numbers. Also those classes have a high skillcap and our healers would need some time to get used to them.
Our former zelot left due to RL issues. Jace doesnt seem to like his shaman. Heaton doesnt have shaman or zelot.

Dok/WP are better against bigger numbers due to AoE. Now, if you think about it, under these circumstances they are possibly better kiters than cloth healers. The reason? They just need to stop for 1.5 secs to cast their group heal, then they can continue kiting (Doks even have CoC so any attack their groupmates make have a chance to snare their enemies). In the meantime, cloth healers would need to stop for 2.5 secs. Now, cloth healers can't afford to stand still for 2.5 secs (if someone reaches them, they are dead) while Dok/WP can still survive quite a beating thanks to their armor value/AoE detaunt (with tactic in T4). Which just happens to be the reason why they have shorter cast times.

Reducing the range on some of their group heals could be an interesting thing to, at least, test. They will need to be closer to the action (and therefore, will have a harder time kiting than cloth healers; isn't that how they are supposed to be?).

[Sulorie]

Reducing the range on some of their group heals could be an interesting thing to, at least, test. They will need to be closer to the action (and therefore, will have a harder time kiting than cloth healers; isn't that how they are supposed to be?).

It forces other classes to be closer to front line in order to be in healrange. They kite as good as before, only their teammates might be out of range more often.

[bloodi]

But you say it yourself, they have the tools to function on that range, they are on that range a lot of time to get smites in, they can weave it and out of it thanks to their lowered casst times and they can function in it thanks to their medium armor.

So if you change their range, they will just continue to be the best healer but with a reduced range, something that doesnt affect them nearly a much as other healers, you are making them worse for situations they were almosst never in and the same in the situation they are always in.

Its just a change for the sake of changing anything and doesnt adress any issue dok/wp has. This will just be bad for people who cant play the class at all while the ones who know what they do will be unnaffected and overall, Dok/wp will still be a better choice even with this change.

I really dont see the point.