DoK/WP with book/chalice...

[TenTonHammer]

Punishing knock only affects 2xDoKs

Which they can deal with m2

Or have their group mates cc them

[noisestorm]

Punishing knock only affects 2xDoKs

Which they can deal with m2

Or have their group mates cc them

Dont forget cleansing winds : >

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

Punishing knock only affects 2xDoKs

Which they can deal with m2

Or have their group mates cc them

Punishing knock has a 5s cd and can be covered, also it robs destru of the possibility to play with dok/dok while order still can play with wp/wp.
M2 to cleanse outgoing is a heavy realm balance issue, order doesnt have to waste m2 just because they have to stand close.
CC on ib is wasted.
Edit: CW to cleanse outgoing is another heavy disadvantage for destru.

Basically 65f healing range will be order biased.

[TenTonHammer]

And Mara robs order of playing x2 wp

[noisestorm]

Punishing knock only affects 2xDoKs

Which they can deal with m2

Or have their group mates cc them

Punishing knock has a 5s cd and can be covered, also it robs destru of the possibility to play with dok/dok while order still can play with wp/wp.
M2 to cleanse outgoing is a heavy realm balance issue, order doesnt have to waste m2 just because they have to stand close.
CC on ib is wasted.
Edit: CW to cleanse outgoing is another heavy disadvantage for destru.

Basically 65f healing range will be order biased.

Not sure if trolling?

You should obviously know that WP/WP cant cleanse WE/Squig/Mara incs right? Whats easier to apply? Going to the backline and dropping an outgoing, or putting an inc on your focus target? I wonder

[Penril]

Keep in mind the IB has to reach the Doks first. Good Doks stand apart from each other so unless you are facing 2 IBs (and they manage to get to both your Doks), you will be fine. Then if you have 3 Doks in your group, you have Khaine's Withdrawal x3.

Order needs a 50% inc. HD Curse. Unless i'm wrong, the only one is on DPS WP and it is only 25% with a horrible CD. WP on the other hand has to deal with WE, Mara and SH heal debuffs (Ailments). But this is more a WP vs. Dok issue.

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

And Mara robs order of playing x2 wp

No why?
Dont confuse cleansing a target which is not getting focused with a target that is actually focused.
In the second case you are not going to get rid of what you want.
In the first case BG debuff wont last long. IB debuff does.

To make it easier for you to understand, bg debuffs wp (wp/wp) -> 2 debuffs cleansed within the next 5s. Needs to cover twice to make it last 5-10s. Impossible to cover for another 5s. would require 4 covers and to much time.

IB debuffs dok (dok,ze) 1 cleanse in the next 5s, need to cover once to make it last 5-10s. Can cover twice for another 5s.

Mara starts with tb (5s cd), gets cleansed -> reapplied in another 5s. Next debuff is CC, reapplied in another 5s (10s cd). And in the end it might be the hd, which has a 5s cd anyways.....
Mara does not counter double wp.

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

Punishing knock only affects 2xDoKs

Which they can deal with m2

Or have their group mates cc them

Punishing knock has a 5s cd and can be covered, also it robs destru of the possibility to play with dok/dok while order still can play with wp/wp.
M2 to cleanse outgoing is a heavy realm balance issue, order doesnt have to waste m2 just because they have to stand close.
CC on ib is wasted.
Edit: CW to cleanse outgoing is another heavy disadvantage for destru.

Basically 65f healing range will be order biased.

Not sure if trolling?

You should obviously know that WP/WP cant cleanse WE/Squig/Mara incs right? Whats easier to apply? Going to the backline and dropping an outgoing, or putting an inc on your focus target? I wonder

Outgoing stacks with incoming in a certain way. If the healer is debuffed he will heal 50%, the inc reduces those to 25% if I am not mistaken.
Incoming hds are almost always covered several times. Not very likely to be cleansed. If it happens anyways the must ve been cw or m2 involved, or the setup needs a tweak.

Outhealing dmg with 50% is more likely than with 25%.

[Penril]

Black Orc does.

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

Black Orc does.

A BO-WE-Mara setup does
But there is still no permanent outgoing on wp. If the range is reduced to 65f it is very likely to be on dok 24/7.