Heaven's Blade

[Penril]

I thought of buffing Da Greenest, but then SM/BO would be mandatory (and they already kinda are, aren't they? lots of people still complain about IB and BG).

[Osred]

Personally I'm seeing BO used alot less in 6 mans being replaced by BGs.

edit: I swear there used to be a delete post button, I forgot this was the discussion board my bad

[Bozzax]

This is the list that shows why x2 spirit debuff is not a great fix

Archmage Path of Asuryan Cleansing Flare
Archmage Path of Asuryan Dissipating Energies
Archmage Path of Asuryan Fury of Asuryan
Archmage Path of Asuryan Law of Conductivity
Archmage Path of Asuryan Radiant Gaze
Archmage Path of Asuryan Scatter The Winds
Archmage Path of Asuryan Searing Touch
Archmage Path of Vaul Energy of Vaul
Archmage Path of Vaul Law of Gold
Archmage Path of Vaul Storm of Cronos
Archmage Path of Vaul Transfer Force
Swordmaster Path of Hoeth Dazzling Strike
Swordmaster Path of Hoeth Ensorcelled Blow
Swordmaster Path of Hoeth Gusting Wind
Swordmaster Path of Hoeth Whispering Wind
Swordmaster Path of Khaine Blurring Shock
Swordmaster Path of Khaine Ether Dance
Swordmaster Path of Khaine Wall of Darting Steel
Swordmaster Path of Vaul Crashing Wave
Swordmaster Path of Vaul Dragon's Talon
Warrior Priest Path of Grace Divine Assault
Warrior Priest Path of Salvation Judgement
Warrior Priest Path of Wrath Prayer of Righteousness
Warrior Priest Path of Wrath Soulfire
White Lion Path of The Guardian Echoing Roar
White Lion Path of The Hunter Lion's Fury
Witch Hunter Path of Confession Blessed Bullets of Purity
Witch Hunter Path of Confession Burn Armor
Witch Hunter Path of Inquisition Blessed Bullets of Confession
Witch Hunter Path of Inquisition Sudden Accusation
Witch Hunter Path of Judgment Blessed Bullets of Cleansing
Witch Hunter Path of Judgment Fanatical Zeal

[peterthepan3]

This is the list that shows why x2 spirit debuff is not a great fix

Archmage Path of Asuryan Cleansing Flare
Archmage Path of Asuryan Dissipating Energies
Archmage Path of Asuryan Fury of Asuryan
Archmage Path of Asuryan Law of Conductivity
Archmage Path of Asuryan Radiant Gaze
Archmage Path of Asuryan Scatter The Winds
Archmage Path of Asuryan Searing Touch
Archmage Path of Vaul Energy of Vaul
Archmage Path of Vaul Law of Gold
Archmage Path of Vaul Storm of Cronos
Archmage Path of Vaul Transfer Force
Swordmaster Path of Hoeth Dazzling Strike
Swordmaster Path of Hoeth Ensorcelled Blow
Swordmaster Path of Hoeth Gusting Wind
Swordmaster Path of Hoeth Whispering Wind
Swordmaster Path of Khaine Blurring Shock
Swordmaster Path of Khaine Ether Dance
Swordmaster Path of Khaine Wall of Darting Steel
Swordmaster Path of Vaul Crashing Wave
Swordmaster Path of Vaul Dragon's Talon
Warrior Priest Path of Grace Divine Assault
Warrior Priest Path of Salvation Judgement
Warrior Priest Path of Wrath Prayer of Righteousness
Warrior Priest Path of Wrath Soulfire
White Lion Path of The Guardian Echoing Roar
White Lion Path of The Hunter Lion's Fury
Witch Hunter Path of Confession Blessed Bullets of Purity
Witch Hunter Path of Confession Burn Armor
Witch Hunter Path of Inquisition Blessed Bullets of Confession
Witch Hunter Path of Inquisition Sudden Accusation
Witch Hunter Path of Judgment Blessed Bullets of Cleansing
Witch Hunter Path of Judgment Fanatical Zeal

I don't see your point...that it allows unconventional comps to shine?

Lol.

[Penril]

I just want to say that double Spirit debuff will also probably be removed (99% sure).

[Tesq]

In what environment is this stacking an issue? I can only see it being an issue with BWs: for engineers and SMs, there is nothing overperforming about the ability to stack. In any other environment, it really isn't an issue.

From a SM PoV, I am fully against removing HB's ability to stack with WoH as this would drastically affect the SM's niche of DPS tank. I don't see an issue whatsoever with SM WoH + EB stacking; good groups know how to counter a SM, the counterplay options are there.

I can't speak on behalf of BWs, but I don't think it would be bad if it didn't stack with corp debuff - though this would, yet again, inadvertently nerf the engineer grenade spec.

wh BLA do ele dmg aswell, there are tons of skills that can benefith from kobs+sm..also SM dmgs are alredy enough... if you have a kobs + any class in group which can ini debuff the target in place of the stat steal you can no prob swap for it.

@The SM have no aoe wounds debuff; to counter Chosen one since the classes are crossmirrored a wounds aoe debuff (so opposie value of chosen could be ideal), kind also mirror BO wounds buff in some way. (i know kobs can aoe wounds debuff redundancy is not uncommon even for destru classes is this way, also kobs need 2h; it will help build diversity imo)

CH/bG
SM/KOBS

will have all a wounds debuff this way and bg/sm can be made stack with other tanks one to add utility and rebalance for both realm in one go (this will preserve staking nature of the skil ; of course bg/sm valkue cna be toned town).
A wounds debuff also aim to help to burst so it will have the same aim of the resistences debuff tough less exploitable.

[peterthepan3]

Spoiler:

I just want to say that double Spirit debuff will also probably be removed (99% sure).

....why? Is this yet another pug-centered change?

Unbelievable.

You can add to the discussion, or just stay out of it.

Additionally I could simply lock this thread, and Torque will implement whatever he thinks of without looking at your input. Is that what you guys want? Just let me know.

[Bozzax]

I don't see your point...that it allows unconventional comps to shine?

Lol.

You mean WH, SM, WL, kniggit meta?

[Coma]

This is the list that shows why x2 spirit debuff is not a great fix

Archmage Path of Asuryan Cleansing Flare
Archmage Path of Asuryan Dissipating Energies
Archmage Path of Asuryan Fury of Asuryan
Archmage Path of Asuryan Law of Conductivity
Archmage Path of Asuryan Radiant Gaze
Archmage Path of Asuryan Scatter The Winds
Archmage Path of Asuryan Searing Touch
Archmage Path of Vaul Energy of Vaul
Archmage Path of Vaul Law of Gold
Archmage Path of Vaul Storm of Cronos
Archmage Path of Vaul Transfer Force
Swordmaster Path of Hoeth Dazzling Strike
Swordmaster Path of Hoeth Ensorcelled Blow
Swordmaster Path of Hoeth Gusting Wind
Swordmaster Path of Hoeth Whispering Wind
Swordmaster Path of Khaine Blurring Shock
Swordmaster Path of Khaine Ether Dance
Swordmaster Path of Khaine Wall of Darting Steel
Swordmaster Path of Vaul Crashing Wave
Swordmaster Path of Vaul Dragon's Talon
Warrior Priest Path of Grace Divine Assault
Warrior Priest Path of Salvation Judgement
Warrior Priest Path of Wrath Prayer of Righteousness
Warrior Priest Path of Wrath Soulfire
White Lion Path of The Guardian Echoing Roar
White Lion Path of The Hunter Lion's Fury
Witch Hunter Path of Confession Blessed Bullets of Purity
Witch Hunter Path of Confession Burn Armor
Witch Hunter Path of Inquisition Blessed Bullets of Confession
Witch Hunter Path of Inquisition Sudden Accusation
Witch Hunter Path of Judgment Blessed Bullets of Cleansing
Witch Hunter Path of Judgment Fanatical Zeal

out of 32 liste ability:

9 are actualy from SM ^^'
6 from WH but 3 of them are bullets and you can only have one bullet at a time
4 are from Wp... one of those is actualy the basic ranged attack... do we really need a double debuff for the equivalent of "axe trow"?
2 from WL
11 from AM...


now... is boosting AM dps really such a heaven forbade thing? are there really so many DPS AM around to make it a great source of unbalance? (especially after the avoidance change had hit caster and DoT pretty hard... and dps AM is actualy a DoT based Caster ^^')

seriously... the one that get the most out of the double spirit debuff are without a boubt Dps Am and Dps SM, WH can get something out of it... but WH dmg mostly come out of BaL and Torment... and neither of those does spirit damage, WP damage... is at best a funny thing to speak about

[peterthepan3]

This is the list that shows why x2 spirit debuff is not a great fix

Archmage Path of Asuryan Cleansing Flare
Archmage Path of Asuryan Dissipating Energies
Archmage Path of Asuryan Fury of Asuryan
Archmage Path of Asuryan Law of Conductivity
Archmage Path of Asuryan Radiant Gaze
Archmage Path of Asuryan Scatter The Winds
Archmage Path of Asuryan Searing Touch
Archmage Path of Vaul Energy of Vaul
Archmage Path of Vaul Law of Gold
Archmage Path of Vaul Storm of Cronos
Archmage Path of Vaul Transfer Force
Swordmaster Path of Hoeth Dazzling Strike
Swordmaster Path of Hoeth Ensorcelled Blow
Swordmaster Path of Hoeth Gusting Wind
Swordmaster Path of Hoeth Whispering Wind
Swordmaster Path of Khaine Blurring Shock
Swordmaster Path of Khaine Ether Dance
Swordmaster Path of Khaine Wall of Darting Steel
Swordmaster Path of Vaul Crashing Wave
Swordmaster Path of Vaul Dragon's Talon
Warrior Priest Path of Grace Divine Assault
Warrior Priest Path of Salvation Judgement
Warrior Priest Path of Wrath Prayer of Righteousness
Warrior Priest Path of Wrath Soulfire
White Lion Path of The Guardian Echoing Roar
White Lion Path of The Hunter Lion's Fury
Witch Hunter Path of Confession Blessed Bullets of Purity
Witch Hunter Path of Confession Burn Armor
Witch Hunter Path of Inquisition Blessed Bullets of Confession
Witch Hunter Path of Inquisition Sudden Accusation
Witch Hunter Path of Judgment Blessed Bullets of Cleansing
Witch Hunter Path of Judgment Fanatical Zeal

I don't see your point...that it allows unconventional comps to shine?

Lol.

You mean WH, SM, WL meta?

WH/WL/SM meta is actually due to the burst/pounce/stealth/SM m2 synergies. I'm sure you'd know this, playing as a solo choppa in scenarios.

What about the DPS AM? DPS WP? SM spirit debuff allows these classes to somewhat 'shine' in certain environments. Again, I am sure you knew that.