New RvR system vs Old RvR system Poll

[dkabib]

make 2 way of locking zone. the normal blob and aoe the keep lord and alternative keep all 4 BOs \that dont have lock timer\ for 30 mins. With the keep locking give a bit more rewards than the BOs one. But that way you will spread around attackers and introduce more small fights around the zone. The keep importance is too big and that cause all the problems. We need more key objectives that could lead to locking the zone and getting reward \cos most ppl play for the reward\

Right there Sir. you deserve a cookie.

[Razid1987]

I've sat here for the past 30 mins and read this entire thread and have come to the conclusion that you want to RvE. Countless times you have mentioned 40v20. That's 2v1 and I'm sorry but those aren't bad odds. They may be loosing odds. You may not be able to defend a keep with them but you can fight. You can hit the tail of the zerg and take 10 of them out before the rest notice and escape. You can retake BOs to prevent the door from going down. You can sit in the keep and farm kills for a while. Hell you can zerg bust with 6 like grulo. The fact that you have stubbornly from the start of this thread refused anyone's opinion but your own says enough. The system now is not perfect. But its better. The side with more people has an advantage. But at least there is fighting and I swear if you say slaughter one more time I'll kick a puppy. If you are being slaughtered it may be an issue of learning to play more strategically. (See what I did there Mr. Stratego) Pick your place to fight the zerg. Make sure you have the advantage. Get as many kills as you can. Die. Hit respawn. Your pixels come back I promise. I say none of this with malice or to personally attack you, ok maybe the strategy thing but come on you asked for it, I say it so you might consider other options instead of flaming everyone who doesn't agree with you in the thread.

Love,
TK

It takes at least two people to disagree on something, and the by your own logic the people I have been arguing with from the beginning, are just as stubborn as me. Funny you don't attack them for being stubborn.

And no, I don't want PvE. If I wanted that, I would play a proper MMO for that, thank you very much.

And as for the 40v20? It's just an example. Could be 100vs20 for all I care. Doesn't really matter. I just didn't want to exaggerate.

[eddel]

i say keep the current system, it values the bos more and helps to spread the forces, BUT open the locked zone after some time maybe 30 or 45 minutes.
dont force ppl to fight several hours for the same keep and give the loosing faction the light at the end of the tunnel.

[Luth]

There must be any mechanic to split up the zerg, even mythic realised this in the end (regardless how it was done...).

Edit: i meant spreading inside one area, so not everyone knocks on the door and brainless zerging = win.

Best suggestion in this thread so far.

Bring back PQ requirement for locks! Oh wait...

[dkabib]

make 2 way of locking zone. the normal blob and aoe the keep lord and alternative keep all 4 BOs \that dont have lock timer\ for 30 mins. With the keep locking give a bit more rewards than the BOs one. But that way you will spread around attackers and introduce more small fights around the zone. The keep importance is too big and that cause all the problems. We need more key objectives that could lead to locking the zone and getting reward \cos most ppl play for the reward\

I'd suggest a timer, 10 minutes? Then there's always 20 minutes to hold it.
This may be a good way to prevent the stalemate of equal forces at a keep, making them go out for BOs and fighting there.
This have potential.

[eddel]

another idea: the keepdoor is only attackable, when u hold 3 bos for longer then 3-5 minutes, the timer resets, when u loose a bo. (i mean even when the enemy faction caps the flag and the bo is contested)

this way its harder for the overhelming faction to take one keep after the other and they need ppl to stay at the bos to guard them.

[Tklees]

I've sat here for the past 30 mins and read this entire thread and have come to the conclusion that you want to RvE. Countless times you have mentioned 40v20. That's 2v1 and I'm sorry but those aren't bad odds. They may be loosing odds. You may not be able to defend a keep with them but you can fight. You can hit the tail of the zerg and take 10 of them out before the rest notice and escape. You can retake BOs to prevent the door from going down. You can sit in the keep and farm kills for a while. Hell you can zerg bust with 6 like grulo. The fact that you have stubbornly from the start of this thread refused anyone's opinion but your own says enough. The system now is not perfect. But its better. The side with more people has an advantage. But at least there is fighting and I swear if you say slaughter one more time I'll kick a puppy. If you are being slaughtered it may be an issue of learning to play more strategically. (See what I did there Mr. Stratego) Pick your place to fight the zerg. Make sure you have the advantage. Get as many kills as you can. Die. Hit respawn. Your pixels come back I promise. I say none of this with malice or to personally attack you, ok maybe the strategy thing but come on you asked for it, I say it so you might consider other options instead of flaming everyone who doesn't agree with you in the thread.

Love,
TK

It takes at least two people to disagree on something, and the by your own logic the people I have been arguing with from the beginning, are just as stubborn as me. Funny you don't attack them for being stubborn.

And no, I don't want PvE. If I wanted that, I would play a proper MMO for that, thank you very much.

And as for the 40v20? It's just an example. Could be 100vs20 for all I care. Doesn't really matter. I just didn't want to exaggerate.

I didn't attack you either. I quoted you with my opinion. I did not call you bad. I did not suggest for you to do something with your sexual organs. I made no insult aside from pointing out your use of the word strategy for taking undefended objectives. That isn't strategy its pve.

Then if you don't want to pve and you don't want to fight anything besides a group of your "equal", relative term, number what exactly are you looking for?

[Luuca]

That is why I said that this being an MMO is such a major problem.

You got team balance problems in match-based games? You install a team balancer - we have a skill-factoring balancer up on our UT servers for this purpose. Those games don't balance themselves either if players are free to pick a side.

The closest analogue to forced balancing in this game? Locking players out of the RvR area to maintain population balance within. And if we did that, there would be riots.

You can't develop a system for WAR's type of RvR which will be innately invulnerable to realm imbalance issues. If the fundamental mechanic of RvR is a persistent world state which is designed to benefit the stronger realm (because you fight for area control), anything which empowers one realm is going to have an effect on that system by design.

If you treat RvR as a scenario with anytime enter/exit, no team balancing and a slightly different objective model, you can see very easily why the RvR system itself isn't the problem. If I were to instance RvR to 100v100, the complaints would stop overnight.

This is why I'm not going to put in another rework for RvR in the short term. I have zero faith whatsoever that anyone can come up with a system that addresses this issue without reintroducing merry-go-rounding, which is a solid red line for me.

This, to me, is good news. it (the current lock system) places the greatest population of players in one zone and thereby helps to ensure more fights.

If you want to help eliminate the "Zerg" mentality, make Open RvR Warbands more productive against Guild Run (Voip-Using) Warbands and groups, you MUST - simply MUST - get the Warband Management System up and running correctly.
When I was leveling up, I would run PuG warbands in the lakes and nothing was more frustrating than not being able to reliably move player classes to match skills, buff, synergies. Sometimes it would work, and other times, I'd have 3 chosen and 2 SH in a group and nothing i could do about it. Also, someone mentions /kick from WB... OMG this deserves a effing keebler elf tree amount of cookie production. In live, someone AFKs, lags behind, takes a SC pop? Boom gone..get someone in here that wants to ORVR.

If you are going to gently nudge the player base into the same zone, you must - again M U S T - give them the Warband tools to be successful.

/endrant.

[Azarael]

The point about warbands is accepted, though there are other things I'd like to implement first. I didn't write the original implementation and I think another of our developers is interested in working with it.

- The suggestion regarding using a BO control timer for an alternative method of zone locking shows promise. I would encourage discussion of it, as I would implement it.

- Against All Odds is all but required now.

I'm taking care of a few things in another community at the moment, though, so don't expect this overnight.

[Gerv]

Back in the day of domination lock, the Bo's had timers of 30 minuets and the keeps had 2 hours. Once the timers were up on both the BO's and keeps the zone flipped, or something close to that (VP points may also have been a contributing factor, I can't remember, long time).

Holding them for 30 minuets and then locking sounds great, but I think they would have to unlock faster than the current 15 mins (iirc) maybe a 10 minuet wait till they can be captured again, or a longer open time than the current 3 mins to give people a chance to fight over them if they are the other-side of the map. For example, the size of the zones moving from one end to the other can take a while, i.e. Far east to far west in Ostland/TC.

I think then to balance this form of locking by BO's rather than keeps the zone rewards need to be lower compared to a keep fight, but obviously not to low as to drive people away from choosing this avenue of zone lock. I dont know what the rewards are currently but maybe 75% as it is quite a task to hold 4 battlefield objectives as a realm with the current small population.

It is also noted that to make this work I think the HP, damage and level of BO guards would need to be increased because afaik a group of lvl 26 players can without blinking, take out a BO. I dont know what they are atm, can someone enlighten me to how it is currently set up and we could work from there?
Because if a small group of people are to defend these Bo's against a larger "zerging" force they need to be able to stave them off with the help of guards till others from other Bo's can arrive to assist with pushing them out.

Please comment where appropriate.