Dual Wield and Greatweapon balance

[Tklees]

If I only have 2h on my WE, mmmm.

not worth it to lose parry bonus for disarm, aa bonus and considering that a majority of our attacks are ment to be done from the back this wouldnt really help us

not to mention the amount of damage based off procs that benefit from being DW (WB, kisses)

[mursie]

Despite many posters reporting that they believe this particular change would be good, it appears that once Bretin detailed (very diplomatically I might add - well done) in his first post that this was not good balance, Azarael posted immediately that the idea was shelved. (for clarification, these two events may be mutually exclusive, their timing merely coincidental.)

Since Azarael is the lead combat design developer, and since it appears he places a great deal of stock in Bretin's post (again could just be coincidental), perhaps we could get Bretin to propose a solution to the problem.

For reference: the problem is that DW is more advantageous than 2H because it has a passive defensive buff (+10% parry) while the 2H has a passive that is basically useless.

What could we give the 2H passive, that would make it more in-line with DW?

I think maybe addressing the problem with a solution instead of discussing the flaws of another proposed solution, would be advantageous.

[Tklees]

Despite many posters reporting that they believe this particular change would be good, it appears that once Bretin detailed (very diplomatically I might add - well done) in his first post that this was not good balance, Azarael posted immediately that the idea was shelved. (for clarification, these two events may be mutually exclusive, their timing merely coincidental.)

Since Azarael is the lead combat design developer, and since it appears he places a great deal of stock in Bretin's post (again could just be coincidental), perhaps we could get Bretin to propose a solution to the problem.

For reference: the problem is that DW is more advantageous than 2H because it has a passive defensive buff (+10% parry) while the 2H has a passive that is basically useless.

What could we give the 2H passive, that would make it more in-line with DW?

I think maybe addressing the problem with a solution instead of discussing the flaws of another proposed solution, would be advantageous.

agree 100% Mursie. Constructive posts with ideas. Not negative ones.

[Penril]

*cough*10% dodge/disrupt for 2H*cough*

[mursie]

What if 2h gave you +10% dodge or disrupt (or maybe even both) instead of block through?

I think there is something really good here. DW gives a defensive buff. Find one for the 2H and i think we got something.

*Cough* AGree *Cough

[bloodi]

While i find great that you both still try to post despite those coughing fits, like real soldiers, i fear that you are just ignoring why Azra shelved the idea.

Bretin stated that this would just buff the burst and would make choppa and slayer even stronger, thats why it was forgotten till later.

If you cannot argue why this is bullshit, i tried a bit, i do believe that they are basing this mostly on random thhoughts and things like white numbers, his last post proves as much, i dont know why you are trying to circle around it and propose another things to buff 2h.

Say why he was wrong or right and stop giving random suggestions you didnt care to develop further.

[mursie]

While i find great that you both still try to post despite those coughing fits, like real soldiers, i fear that you are just ignoring why Azra shelved the idea.

Bretin stated that this would just buff the burst and would make choppa and slayer even stronger, thats why it was forgotten till later.

If you cannot argue why this is bullshit, i tried a bit, i do believe that they are basing this mostly on random thhoughts and things like white numbers, his last post proves as much, i dont know why you are trying to circle around it and propose another things to buff 2h.

Say why he was wrong or right and stop giving random suggestions you didnt care to develop further.

Sorry bloodi,

I'm not trying to prove something is or isn't bullshit. Azarael had an idea. Some think it is ok, others think it buffs burst.

I am not in either camp at the moment. Instead, I think there is a better solution to the problem. DW has a defensive passive buff.

Give the 2H a good defensive passive buff and the problem is solved and no proof is needed for whether burst is buffed or not.

That was my intention. Basically, the DW passive doesn't buff damage, it buffs defense. So make the 2H passive do the same. That was the idea.

[TenTonHammer]

Effective of heals received is increased by 10% with 2h equiped

:>

[bloodi]

I'm not trying to prove something is or isn't bullshit. Azarael had an idea. Some think it is ok, others think it buffs burst.


That was my intention. Basically, the DW passive doesn't buff damage, it buffs defense. So make the 2H passive do the same. That was the idea.

You did not understand a single thing, a change, any change, whatsoever, is not going to be done as long as you cant prove why 2h needs to be buffed, the current stance is that there is no need for it as his passive being worse is a compensation for the extra burst.

If you cannot argue how this is not true, dont suggest anything, its pointless, is not going to be done, there is no balance issue to address and thus, no change needed.

So either prove why 2h needs a buff or stop giving random suggestions.

[Penril]

While i find great that you both still try to post despite those coughing fits, like real soldiers, i fear that you are just ignoring why Azra shelved the idea.

Bretin stated that this would just buff the burst and would make choppa and slayer even stronger, thats why it was forgotten till later.

If you cannot argue why this is bullshit, i tried a bit, i do believe that they are basing this mostly on random thhoughts and things like white numbers, his last post proves as much, i dont know why you are trying to circle around it and propose another things to buff 2h.

Say why he was wrong or right and stop giving random suggestions you didnt care to develop further.

Because 10% block strike through is useless, and pretty much everyone agrees on that (SnB tanks are the last targets you want to attack).

The only idea that was shelved for now, was making it a +10% parry strike through. I'm ok with that, though i disagree with Bretin. If it is being shelved, might as well give other suggestions. Now, a 10% dodge buff? It won't increase burst at all, and it actually helps 2H classes (the biggest threat to a 2H tank is usually ranged damage, and Pouncing WLs can get away from melee but not from ranged enemies).

Yes, 2H has more burst. But the longer the fight drags on, the more similar dual wield and 2H damage is. In close fights between equally skilled groups, the duration is usually longer than 10 seconds (sometimes way longer).