Forum Order consensus vs reality. Why is that?

[Sulorie]

It's a pretty strong one.
You shouldn't exclude a healer by looking at his mastery spec.
When starting a dps am/sham it is advised to take the puddle at first, making you look like a healspec healer.
Tactics can be switched, which makes them no reliable way to sort players.

It is simple. When your queue times are too long, stop queuing as dps. When you want play dps, join a group with healers.
The perfect incentive to make sc groups. The solo mentality kills the enjoyment in sc, not dps healers.
Without the dps healer the queue times would be even longer.

[Penril]

It's a pretty strong one.
You shouldn't exclude a healer by looking at his mastery spec.
When starting a dps am/sham it is advised to take the puddle at first, making you look like a healspec healer.
Tactics can be switched, which makes them no reliable way to sort players.

It is simple. When your queue times are too long, stop queuing as dps. When you want play dps, join a group with healers.
The perfect incentive to make sc groups. The solo mentality kills the enjoyment in sc, not dps healers.
Without the dps healer the queue times would be even longer.

It's not strong at all.

First, your are not excluding a DPS healer from anything. You are just giving him the same Q times as a DPS (which is fair since you are a DPS healer and not a real healer). Specially fair considering that most DPS healers can't compete with a true backline healer.

Puddle would be a terrible way to decide the role of a healer since all AM/Shaman specs grab it. However no DPS AM grabs Wild Healing, or Funnel Essence. I mentioned one skill as an example, but it obviously should be a combination of a few skills/tactics.

You think that Q times would be longer without the DPS healer, yet don't acknowledge the fact that the other realm has as many dps healers as yours. So if the system fails to find "true" healers on both sides, then at least it could launch a SC with the same amount of tanks/dps on both sides. Which would be more balanced than 1 side with 2 DPS healers and the other one with 2 real healers.

I understand some of your comments are based on the assumption that a DPS healer will swap gear/tactics if his group needs more heals. And other people in this thread assume no one is gonna game the system. I guess i'm a more realistic person (some would say negative, but whatev). Cheers.

[th3gatekeeper]

- So again, any ideas as to HOW to create an incentive for more order tanks/MDPS? I mean hell if transmutes would do it and destro was given some as well so they didn't nerd rage out... I would say why not? It seems like a waste of time, but the less order (me) on the forums making sarcastic passive aggressive threads the better .

Ill just respond to this since generally I play tanks in most games, and like to switch between full SnB setup as well as 2H "dps" tank setups.


I think bottom line the issue with tanks is "fun". Going full SnB and just being a "buff bot" for the party isnt much fun. Even with "utility" added to the class, it still isnt much fun.

Its why, when I play my Knight, I LOATH going SnB - eventhough I leveled up that way! I was excited to play a "full tank Knight" but once I actually got to T3, got my gear, it was SOOOO freaking boring just because I would hit people for 100-200, just following people around looking to "taunt" sorcs/Shaman who were "beaming" my teammates and making sure guard was up. Meanwhile my slayer was like "Omg, 1.5k crtizasdada leet deepsasdad!!!!"

So the crux of the tank class is, "well if they can take SUCH a beating, and buff up the group SO much, they obviously CANT deal any damage or it would be OP right?" Overall I agree with 1 exception.

Tanks dont need to feel like thay are dealing AMAZING damage to a target, but if they can deal a solid "timed" damage to a target to feel useful, that could be a HUGE "fun" boost to the team.

So something I had on my "Guardian Fighter" (tank) in my previous game (Neverwinter) was a move called "anvil of doom". When the game first came out, and for about 1.5 years after launch, Anvil of doom did mediocre damage UNLESS the target was under an HP threshold, then the damage was DOUBLED.

So a "tank" could roll into PVP, go "protection mode" and do his job, but then when a target got low, he could Anvil them for "good damage". Maybe it wasnt always "AMAZING" but it was solid.


I think this is the type of thing that would make playing a tank, very fun indeed.

Liability: You run into a liability now that 2H tanks might be "too good" since this would give a crazy "execution" so you could either just "test this out" OR perhaps look at making it scale off something defensive instead. Maybe it "requires a Shield" or maybe it attacks for a % of toughness" or maybe just but the ability in the tank tree itself or as a tactic in the tank tree on a "tank tree move".

At current levels, I dont think this needs to be any "Crazy" burst, but even something that could crit for like 800 would make me feel more "valuable" and make it more "fun" too since you too could be part of the "who got the KB" game.


So it would not REALLY buff the "tank damage" but enable them "utility" in the form of 1 big hit, possibly with a big CD, but that doubled damage on targets under 25% or 30% HP or something.....

I think this would make more people feel like playing a SnB tank is MUCH more fun.

[Scrilian]

He thinks that by being obnoxious in every single thread on the topic that he will provoke some kind of change.

That's simply not true and it saddens me that you see it that way.
It's your server anyway, do whatever you wish with its scenario manager and make it have as much of the bland, boring, presumed balanced, precalculated-matchmaking fun as possible.
I gave up on the idea of having a discussion about it, that was just a rant on my side on that issue that wasn't even brought up in weeks.
Seeing that you avoid posting reasonable replies on any questions about it makes one wonder if you've actually answered them to yourself.
No offense.

[Azarael]

It is true; you've just done it again. In every single topic (and I mean every single topic) on the subject you have contributed repeatedly your beliefs that the previous system wasn't broken and that you find the idea of trying to balance it boring.

I've registered your opinion. I just don't care to do anything about it. If you think repeating the same thing endlessly like a broken record is going to change that, then I'd like to clue you in to the fact that it will accomplish absolutely nothing.

[freshour]

Heyyyyyy I played Neverwinter until just about a month and a half ago when I came here!!!! I wonder if you ever watched any of my videos. I was (Dom@freshour) on there . Holy crap that is cool to see another Neverwinter player realizing this game being 500 years old is so much better. But yeah this is a really cool idea! I'm afraid it will most likely be met with the old fashioned tabletop guys saying "HECK NO in my day tanks were tanks and it was the thrill of the battle to see a mighty boss relentlessly try and strike me down but to no avail!* - when in reality no one attacks tanks... like at all. Except Melee Healers to get some free heals off as he finds his next target or waits for his taunt to come back to move further back. That idea has been stated several times and is usually met with order tanks who love to tank (few) and destro melee tanks (generally do a lot more damage) saying heck no. 1 likes to be traditional. The other likes to be better. You can't hate them for liking a clear advantage in damage as well as tankiness with their 10% more parry. But it does tend to make Az getting changes through a little harder when they get their friends to jump on here and hate on possible fixes to this little conundrum.

[mursie]

No offense.

Hilarious.

Hey Chief, no offense, but you're a total d-bag. No offense of course.

[th3gatekeeper]

Heyyyyyy I played Neverwinter until just about a month and a half ago when I came here!!!! I wonder if you ever watched any of my videos. I was (Dom@freshour) on there . Holy crap that is cool to see another Neverwinter player realizing this game being 500 years old is so much better. But yeah this is a really cool idea! I'm afraid it will most likely be met with the old fashioned tabletop guys saying "HECK NO in my day tanks were tanks and it was the thrill of the battle to see a mighty boss relentlessly try and strike me down but to no avail!* - when in reality no one attacks tanks... like at all. Except Melee Healers to get some free heals off as he finds his next target or waits for his taunt to come back to move further back. That idea has been stated several times and is usually met with order tanks who love to tank (few) and destro melee tanks (generally do a lot more damage) saying heck no. 1 likes to be traditional. The other likes to be better. You can't hate them for liking a clear advantage in damage as well as tankiness with their 10% more parry. But it does tend to make Az getting changes through a little harder when they get their friends to jump on here and hate on possible fixes to this little conundrum.

So you know what I am talking about then!

GFs had many "party utility" buffs like increase damage/runespeed/and "morale gain" would be the equivalent.

They also had "Knights Valor" which was an "Aoe Guard" (think guard is OP here - try Neverwinter where a tank could "guard his ENTIRE TEAM). but then could also time a well placed attack and hit someone for 15-20% of their life if under an "HP threshold" making the class feel FUN but wasnt considered overpowered since the damage they dealt was minimal in any other situation.

[th3gatekeeper]

To add to the above.

Looking into some of the trees, probably the BEST ability to do this with would be the one never used in PVP: The "hate" abilities:

Knights - Sunder
SM - Graceful Strike
Chosen - Enraged Blow
BG - Hateful Strike

Etc etc...

Would require some "modifications" obviously - preventing "spam" but I would imagine that nearly everyone would be onboard with adding a short CD (5 seconds) to this ability, making it deal increased damage for targets under an HP threshold.

Since it scaled with the tank tree, would require even 2H users to spec into this if they want it.

Overall would encourage more tanks to be tanks....

[bloodi]

Creating new abilities is not feasible as far as i know.

And if it was, they should bring back divine strike before anything else.