Luth wrote:
This farce was implemented to prove a point, not because some short sighted fools "won the discussion".
I think you will find that point won't exactly be well made, the last thing on this server that got really good and well studied feedback was the proc meta discussions. Because the server had at that time the most healthy 6v6 scene ever. You had organized tournaments, and guilds were skirmishing basically every day. You have a very stable structure from which to see how things were effected, in this case guilds catching onto procs and building groups around them. So you had guilds that fought each other daily, or at least weekly with the same people changing group comps and seeing first hand how that effected the game in a really strict and controlled environment.
What kind of feedback are you going to get for QE? Everything right now seems extremely volatile and sporadic, a lot of evidence is going to be anecdotal on all levels and arenas of play from players of all experience and backgrounds. Relatively low population of this game in comparison to others also plays a huge role in that.
You have to in the case of this server use common sense and push forwards just as you did with the AM/Shaman changes, it took weeks if not months for the small playerbase here to realize just how powerful the new changes are really take advantage of them, and still most don't even know half of whats in the .ab ex. Whereas for instance a dev team like overwatch's or DotA 2's can get in 1 day of PTR what we would see on this server in a years time in terms of valuable feedback.
Tesq wrote:is supposed QE to refresh itself before it end? i dont think worked like this on live. It's basically always active like this
Luth wrote:How a "QE escape meta" changes the overall balance should be well known to people who played WAR in the last years. Actually one just has to read the tooltip...
@thread:
In case anyone makes the suggestion that QE should be impossible to proc while it's running or other changes to make it less destructive to the overall balance: The problem with QE is a conceptual one and my personal guess is that making suggestions to alter the ability will just earn you a middle finger from Aza.
This farce was implemented to prove a point, not because some short sighted fools "won the discussion". And balancing weak <-> op racial tactics is an entirely different topic. Everyone knows that there is a big disparity beween them.
Kinda hard to prove a point if the skill isn't implemeted right.
Then you gonna have every single pro QE saying that the test was bullshit and biased.
Imagine if you tried to prove that your moped can't do 60km/hour and your friend brings his Ducati 1098 to prove that it actually can.
I'm personally against all the renown passives and and active abillties. But i do think if something gonna be tested to prove a point it should be done correctly,
Tesq wrote:is supposed QE to refresh itself before it end? i dont think worked like this on live. It's basically always active like this
Luth wrote:How a "QE escape meta" changes the overall balance should be well known to people who played WAR in the last years. Actually one just has to read the tooltip...
@thread:
In case anyone makes the suggestion that QE should be impossible to proc while it's running or other changes to make it less destructive to the overall balance: The problem with QE is a conceptual one and my personal guess is that making suggestions to alter the ability will just earn you a middle finger from Aza.
This farce was implemented to prove a point, not because some short sighted fools "won the discussion". And balancing weak <-> op racial tactics is an entirely different topic. Everyone knows that there is a big disparity beween them.
Kinda hard to prove a point if the skill isn't implemeted right.
Then you gonna have every single pro QE saying that the test was bullshit and biased.
Imagine if you tried to prove that your moped can't do 60km/hour and your friend brings his Ducati 1098 to prove that it actually can.
I'm personally against all the renown passives and and active abillties. But i do think if something gonna be tested to prove a point it should be done correctly,
And how is the ability not implemented right? What was the evidence posted? Someone thinks that it didn't refresh itself on mythics servers?
You (and others) should be long enough on this project to know that only facts are accepted.
Example for evidence, because there seems to be still the misunderstanding that RoR works like the major part of the rest of the internet and there will be "discussions" based on alternative facts:
porkstar wrote:PHEW! MDPS needed another anti-kiting tool! Especially order! Tell me when will maras gain a pounce pounce pounce pounce pounce pounce and don't forget about my shammy rkd!
???
you realize both the kiting people and the ones chasing the kiters will use QE?
also since when do healers need a ranged kd???
Are you ignoring the fact that Run Away has been a standard justification for the existence of order anti-kiting tools such as rkd, pounce, fetch, no escape etc? Also, since everyone can get QE, everyone has access to a mirror of gobbo racial. I say we add a new renown ability called Sweet Ass Armor For Free so everyone can mirror the bad ass dwarf armor tactic. Anyway...f****************k ... Also, treat your mother right!
I simply believe that all races should be equal, and by that I mean all should have equal opportunity to benefit from their racial tactics in T4 rvr.
If we assume that Gobbo/Orc and Dawi tactics are left as they are, the other 4 need to be brought up. If no satisfactory solution can be found to make all 7 racial tactics equal, then the change must be downwards to being equally bad.
Honestly though, RunAway is good, but it's not that "OP". But it is certainly excellent compared to other lesser racial tactics that are never used because they simply suck.
My subjective and probably very faulty ranking of racial tactics:
1. RunAway
2. Dwarven armour tactic
3. Orc wounds/extra crit
4. High Elf Centuries of Training + Discerning Offence
(edited because someone already called me disqualified to make opinions...thx)
and the rest are pretty awful. Heck, even Centuries of Training might need small buff to get to same level as the two first ones.
So we find a need to figure how to buff Dark Elves, Empire and Chaos without breaking the game balance, which might be a very hard task.
Spoiler:
My initial, hastily brainstormed ideas which many probably think suck:
Dark Elf: Dark Blessings. 10% incoming heals simply is awful, it needs to be something that is actually good for T4 gameplay. And on the other hand Sorcs do not need a buff at all. Then there is the other one, Bathing in Blood, which gives small HoT for killing an enemy, again no one uses this (maybe in PvE?).
Initial flawed suggestion which is very much up to debate if we ever get to balancing racial tactics: Dark Blessings: "Upon taking damage, a 10% chance to increase Auto Attack speed by 25%"
It would buff BG and dps DoK, might be usable for WE in groupplay (better options exist for fast ganks) and as I said Khaine has no need to favour sorcs even more.
Empire: Emperor's Ward, a 10% chance to get a weak absorb barrier, which is a tactic players only use before they can get any other tactic.
Idea; Emperor's Ward; "Increase your all resistances by 100-2XX"
If Dawi get to keep their Armour buff, surely Empire people who are protected by their faith can get some help against all nasty magic and get some anti-heresy help.
Honestly not sure what r40 tactic number rate for resist buff would be "balanced", or what number would equal the benefit that 660 armour buff gives.
Classes may benefit from this, and the idea is certainly to give Empire some kind of tactic that equals the 660 armour tactic in its utility for t4 rvr. Maybe Imperial knights and Priests become night killable by enemy magic, but maybe that's how good racial tactics are supposed to work?
Chaos: Warped Flesh; again a very weak absorb bubble in case of being attacked, included with internal cd.
One idea would be to make the tactic boost toughness, but I'm not sure Chosen/Mara should get that.
Other idea would be to give attackers a snare proc, nasty chaos flesh slowing them down. ("Stop hitting the chosen!")
Hard to figure something out that doesn't buff a very strong chosen further, but somehow would improve zealot/magus more.
Well suggesting this anyway: "On being hit, your warped flesh will heal group members within 65 feet of you for 1XX health, cannot trigger more than once every 3 seconds"
Maybe it is too strong, but so is RunAway ins some circumstances, not to mention Dawi armour. And maybe Order dps will learn not to spam attacks on Chosen.
Other possible idea. "On being hit, your warped flesh causes your attackers to lose 20% of their movement speed for 6 seconds"
Another possible idea; "On being hit, your warped flesh swallows the attackers energy and they gain AP -33% (or -50%?) slower during next 6 seconds"
Meaning prolonged contact with chaos flesh is bad for you, as it should be. If -33% AP gain reduction is too strong, maybe tweak it a bit. So you either kill the nasty chaos being or the chaos starts swallowing your energy to fight.
As for High Elves; Centuries of Training feels pretty okay, maybe minor buff to the dmg done (or in case we get to keep QE, add a minor snare into mix and make the CoT last 6 seconds)
that being my initial ideas that probably suck, but there are a lot of potential ways to make racial tactics somewhat more equal.
Last edited by Aurandilaz on Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Daknallbomb wrote:Hmm guard dmg will proc it or not?
It will do, and considering tanks on both sides will use to stay in guard range, no imbalanced caused. Unless the tank is a bad tank and doesn't bother with guard nor QE.
@thread:
In case anyone makes the suggestion that QE should be impossible to proc while it's running or other changes to make it less destructive to the overall balance: The problem with QE is a conceptual one and my personal guess is that making suggestions to alter the ability will just earn you a middle finger from Aza.
This farce was implemented to prove a point, not because some short sighted fools "won the discussion". And balancing weak <-> op racial tactics is an entirely different topic. Everyone knows that there is a big disparity beween them.
Kinda hard to prove a point if the skill isn't implemeted right.
Then you gonna have every single pro QE saying that the test was bullshit and biased.
Imagine if you tried to prove that your moped can't do 60km/hour and your friend brings his Ducati 1098 to prove that it actually can.
I'm personally against all the renown passives and and active abillties. But i do think if something gonna be tested to prove a point it should be done correctly,
And how is the ability not implemented right? What was the evidence posted? Someone thinks that it didn't refresh itself on mythics servers?
You (and others) should be long enough on this project to know that only facts are accepted.
Example for evidence, because there seems to be still the misunderstanding that RoR works like the major part of the rest of the internet and there will be "discussions" based on alternative facts:
Fact:
0:16 - 2 seconds left on the buff
0:17 - buff refreshes to 5 seconds again
It's also supose to dispell if the caster is using an abillty. This dude in the video is using both detaunt and Drain Magic without it dispelling. So maybe not the the best source of showcase how the abillity operates.
I'm probobly wrong on the retriggering tho. But would make sence to have it on an abillity that function like this.
Azarael wrote:Demonstrate once more that QE is overpowered and make the people who were pushing for QE (dur3al chiefly) back down and I'll be happy to remove it.
Alternatively, demonstrate that QE busts zergs and we'll eat all the bullshit and imbalance I said and knew QE would cause for the sake of that.
A nice little experiment.
Why exactly do I feel like a lab rat?^^
But honestly, we have way to much speed boost in the game already. Quick escape will become mandatory pretty soon as it will be the only way to get away from people as well as it will be the only way to get the people. QE and Odjira are like Nukes.... you need to have them just to uphold the balance of terror and the world would be better off without them.
Time to skill all rr abilities and break the game! What a time ... I already fear all those melees where i have no idea how they are specced and suddently they pop a rd followed by a speed proc out of nowhere. Definately going places
As road said there was a period which QE was bugged in live and didn't work as intended; for the sake of test im not sure if it's currently implemented correctly but ehi not wanted to create 2 page of discussion about i just pointed it out.
