Dual Wield and Greatweapon balance

[peppex91]

Love Penril idea even more then the 10% parry strikethrough; a 10% defensive buff like dodge or disrupt would mirror perfectly the 10% parry buff from DW.
That way the main difference between this weapon types will be just sustain/burst damage.

[Vigfuss]

Spoiler:

I think things are changing too quickly. What is the outcome of the WP detaunt change? Is that going to stay? When does the trial period end and how is this being evaluated? Gear sets will change things a bit too, by buffing WP and DoK healing.

I don't like this willy nilly approach to balance changes. I think it's really important to make only one change at a time, so the whole picture gets properly look at.

The outcome? It's a nice boon to melee healing survivability, but it isn't the huge game-breaking 110% meta-shifting buff people screamed it would be. You'll still be vaporized the second you get any sort of focus without a guard glued to you. The AoE detaunt just means you can operate a little more independently of a guard without being floored the second more than one enemy targets you.

Something a lot of you seem to not understand is that they can revert changes. If the armour sets are too powerful, it isn't simply a permanent issue we'll have to forever deal with it. Give Wrath a 50% heal-debuff? Make Pounce work at further ranges? Magus with 3000 baseline armour? If it breaks the game, they just reverse the change and figure something else out.

Of course changes can be reverted, but what happens in the mean time, and what does it do for the reputation of this project? A careful and methodical approach to changes is what we need. We don't need changes just because.

[ThePollie]

Of course changes can be reverted, but what happens in the mean time, and what does it do for the reputation of this project? A careful and methodical approach to changes is what we need. We don't need changes just because.

I never said to just make changes for the sake of changes. I expect there will be a few changes that will be reverted, during the life of the server. The devs won't get it right all the time, but it will be harder to change things for the better if you can't even discuss it without people crawling out of the woodwork screaming threats of the world falling apart. I've yet to see one thread discussing any sort of change that didn't involve petty comments and pissing contest arguments.

[noisestorm]

I never said to just make changes for the sake of changes. I expect there will be a few changes that will be reverted, during the life of the server. The devs won't get it right all the time, but it will be harder to change things for the better if you can't even discuss it without people crawling out of the woodwork screaming threats of the world falling apart. I've yet to see one thread discussing any sort of change that didn't involve petty comments and pissing contest arguments.

10 points for gryffindor

[amputationsaw]

a change for 2H tanks using guard would be useful. I see many 2H tanks not using guard because they get to much input, much more than a SnB tank. maybe give them a higher chance to dodge guarded attacks so the have better survivability and more value when they guard with a 2H weapon

[ThePollie]

a change for 2H tanks using guard would be useful. I see many 2H tanks not using guard because they get to much input, much more than a SnB tank. maybe give them a higher chance to dodge guarded attacks so the have better survivability and more value when they guard with a 2H weapon

Two-handed tanks aren't supposed to be that durable. They give that up when they ask for more damage. Granted, I find a lot of two-handed tanks die a lot because they neglect parry.

Also, I'm very certain that Guard damage is mitigated only by parry and block, so dodge/disrupt wouldn't help.

[noisestorm]

This discussion for now is only for changing the innate bonus of a 2handed weapon. IF 2h tanks in any form need a buff or not, may come in another topic.

@Topic: Like mentioned before, id rather have a flat dmg increase on a wepon with a 2h flag or some form of extra armorpen than having 10%parryignore. Nonetheless even the parryignore would be a LOT more favorable than a blockignore..

[TenTonHammer]

cant make it armor pen, would be too strong of a buff to mdps

Choppa with 2H hitta and savage is pretty dam strong and is the prefered spec for premade play, it is by no menas un used

[Azarael]

a change for 2H tanks using guard would be useful. I see many 2H tanks not using guard because they get to much input, much more than a SnB tank. maybe give them a higher chance to dodge guarded attacks so the have better survivability and more value when they guard with a 2H weapon

Wrong direction. If 2h tanks lose out on Guard (which they should, they're opting for a less defensive setup) they should be given something that allows them to counter foe Guards.

[Jaycub]

A lot of 2H tanks suck because they put on the great weapon and instantly think they are viable DPS, so they are running like 800 strength and possibly focused offense and don't stack parry. 2H on tank just defines your utility and in some ways play style, the main thing every tank class in the game has to be able to do is gaurd someone.

The problem with buffing 2H tanks too much is that in the meta we are in now where burst is everything and healing is OP etc... there will be literally no reason to go S/B on a lot of tanks if they can have everything they need in 2H spec and deal decent damage while being survivable to the point there is no reason to target them over their gaurdee or other non tank classes in the fray. What needs to be done in regards to 2H tanks is a rebalancing of the abilities they have, and dont have access too. And tweaking the abilities on the weaker side of things to make it so that going s/b or 2H is real choice and not one seen as mandatory like on knight/BG etc...

Wrong direction. If 2h tanks lose out on Guard (which they should, they're opting for a less defensive setup) they should be given something that allows them to counter foe Guards.

This would totally shake up the meta tho, maybe for the good. Could see 1 def tank 1 off tank 1 mdps 1 rdps 2 healers being the new meta instead of 2 tanks 2 mdps 2 healers in 6v6 situations.


Going even deeper if this solves the problem with RDPS in 6v6 situations you would also have to look at what makes certain RDPS excel in this role (lone RDPS in a 6 man) like SW/SH/AM and possible Shaman if their healdebuff wasn't trash, compared to magus/engineer sorc/BW. Mostly what utility they can bring to the group and their ability to survive via kiting or cheesy 50% AoE detaunts / detaunt tactics :^)