Overarching balance changes

[bloodi]

sorry but do you think 35% chance to take damage on cast that is usually controlled with basic setup of 2 healers in grp is kinda lol compared to 35% crit chance + additonal 100% crit dmg?

Oh, i think its controlled, however every class has a mechanic that improves them while having no downside.

Yet i only hear about the "no downside" part when we talk about the casters. What is the downside of the Chosen or Kobts mechanic? Where is the downside of the Wh/We?

Nowhere but god damn if we dont have to remind everyone about the fact that you dont get killed instantly when cast at 100 mechanic on bw/sorc.

[sanii]

RP/ZE

*cough* sever *cough*

[bloodi]

And if anyone is open to try it, go and play around a bit dumping your mechanic with meltdown/dhaar wind all the time and come back then and tell us how many people you killed.

Because its easy to look at the numbers and see how much benefit they get from the mechanic but then you also have to realize that they are built around being at 100 mechanic all the time to kill.

Because casting 2 secs to get a 200 non crit damage is not the most rewarding gameplay neither is the way to get yourself into a 6 man group.

[grumcajs]

I think you are right. self-dmg is horrible. why not change it slayer like mechanic? 35% higher chance to be crit + lets be a good guy and give them +50% increased inc crit dmg ?

@bloodi - slayers and choppas in green have lowest dmg of all mdps classes ... and I think BW/sorc can build mechanic pretty much at same time or maybe faster

[Penril]

sorry but do you think 35% chance to take damage on cast that is usually controlled with basic setup of 2 healers in grp is kinda lol compared to 35% crit chance + additonal 100% crit dmg?

Oh, i think its controlled, however every class has a mechanic that improves them while having no downside.

Yet i only hear about the "no downside" part when we talk about the casters. What is the downside of the Chosen or Kobts mechanic? Where is the downside of the Wh/We?

Nowhere but god damn if we dont have to remind everyone about the fact that you dont get killed instantly when cast at 100 mechanic on bw/sorc.

BO/SM: sometimes you will want to use a certain skill but can't because you are not in the correct plan. A 1-2 seconds delay can mean a lot in certain fights.

AM/Shaman: They only benefit from their mechanic when in DPS spec, and only to get an instant-rez every now and then. Their mechanic is complete useless in heal spec (I guess it has no downside, but no upside as well).

Engi/Magus: their mechanic requires them to stay close to their pets to increase the damage they deal, but staying immobile is a bad idea for a rDPS class, specially when you have to kite constantly.

Choppa/Slayer: They take a lot more damage when enraged. Without dedicated guard and heals they melt easily.

WL: crucial CC tied to the pet, lose a lot of damage if pet dies. Add to that terrible AI pathfinding.

IB/BG/Mara/SW/WH/SH/WE/Chosen/KotBS/WP/Dok/Zea/RP/BW/Sorc: No downside. However the benefits of Sorc/BW mechanic are much better than the ones from the other classes mentioned here.

Not that i think BW/Sorc need to be nerfed... I think they are fine. But the drawbacks of being at 100 Combustion should be more severe (backlash damage is pretty much a non-factor).

[Jaycub]

>BW/Sorc no downsides

Any situation in which you find yourself being focused by another group or anything that can be considered dangerous that 750 damage backlash goes from something that is just group healed, to something that can hasten your demise.

While all RDPS deals with casting setbacks, BW also has to deal with situations where casting at all will quite literally kill them. IDK how many times I have been in a 6 man on my BW and we are so close to finally killing a target but their train/focus is on me and I have to choose between taking backlash damage on top of focus damage in order to keep DPS on the target, or to totally and utterly disengage from doing anything but focusing on living.

BW/Sorc at least in the groups I run in are always the main focus because we know 1st hand how much more they are effected by this.

Edit: BW/Sorc also have no mobility, and lowest armor potential of any class in the game. Making them the easiest target to focus on top of being the most effected by being pressured.

[grumcajs]

>BW/Sorc no downsides

Any situation in which you find yourself being focused by another group or anything that can be considered dangerous that 750 damage backlash goes from something that is just group healed, to something that can hasten your demise.

While all RDPS deals with casting setbacks, BW also has to deal with situations where casting at all will quite literally kill them. IDK how many times I have been in a 6 man on my BW and we are so close to finally killing a target but their train/focus is on me and I have to choose between taking backlash damage on top of focus damage in order to keep DPS on the target, or to totally and utterly disengage from doing anything but focusing on living.

BW/Sorc at least in the groups I run in are always the main focus because we know 1st hand how much more they are effected by this.

tbh thats how it should be - u gain godlike stats from 100 mechanic so you have to decide if you want to continue dps or drop mechanic to survive. look on slayers and choppas. when they are focused they have to do the same and drop their mechanic to 0 dealing less dmg than all other dps classes till they get to yellow.

high risk , high reward. and for the most rewarding mechanic is should be the most severe risk

EDIT - and dont tell me nobody loves to target enraged slayer and choppas...

[bloodi]

...

Am/Shaman can just cast silence or a heal debuff, which they should do a lot of times and the next heal will get improved, you could argue about not having enough gcds on pressure situations but outside of them, the mechanic does grant them an upside in reduced cast times and more powerful instants, we could also argue how pitiful that increase is but is still there.

As dps however, is a great mechanic, using damage skills grants you free aoe heals, i cant see how anyone can argue that there is no upside here.

Wl/SH is indeed **** to lost major part of your damage to mostly stupid ai and dumb aoe.

BO/SM do get an upside from its mechanic, the further they are on the plan, they get better skills which gets compensated by not being as flexible. So its a fair trade imo.

Choppa/Slayer: They get to control it by rage dumps, you can argue that using a gcd to dump rage is a downside but most of them are either part of their rotation or too good to not use. And every dps needs guard to not melt.

Engi/magus: They suck so do their mechanic.

The point is that you cant keep pointing to the crit number without seeing the number when its not a crit, if you can average 350 damage and i can get to 400 in 70% of my attacks, i still will lose to average damage to you, just like happens now. You constantly pointing out that i have more crit damage is stupid when its the crit damage the only thing that ever keeps me close to you.

@bloodi - slayers and choppas in green have lowest dmg of all mdps classes ... and I think BW/sorc can build mechanic pretty much at same time or maybe faster

When slayers and choppas need 5 secs, no one cleansing, the target is not guarded and they are unable to use detaunt to kill someone, we will talk about how they are comparable.

Till then, keep cherrypicking things to show half truths.

[Jaycub]

I think the difference between Slayer/CH and BW/Sorc is unorganized groups or pugs find it much easier to focus the slayers and choppas, as they have to present themselves on the front lines to deal damage.

BW/Sorc can do so from range. Countering them is easy for organized groups. The most simple being a mara/WL pull or better yet M1 into a burn.

So yes, technically a BW/Sorc can sit back and never get pressued and their mechanic is a nonfactor as it is easier group healed or AoE healed by it self. But that is expecting bad play from the other group.

[roadkillrobin]

Or good play from yours were you actually have the CC and dps on the frontline to keep them from reaching your backline.