¨Join Solo¨ and ¨Join Group¨

[Zegota]

With our current pop and number of premades, I only see a possibility for separate queue for premades in a 6v6 scenario. In other case they would have to wait for a long time to get a pop.
Also 2-3 people queueing together are not necessarily a factor, unlike groups of 4+ players.
I've seen many times full premades losing to a complete pug, so no wonder that they resort to double premade qing. Premade only queues will give them the competition that they're trying to avoid.

[Tiggo]

premades hate nothing more then having to play with a random group believe me


a relatively easy method could be:

make one scenario a "group scenario" you still can queue for it solo but get a solicit warning "this is a group scenario, you will face premade groups here. really queue?"

gruoup queue will automatically queue for that scenario.

could be a first test how it works out? if premades still queue the other scenarios or even not queue that specific one you will now that all is a lost cause at least ^^

[wargrimnir]

Spoiler:

But hey, instead of arguing past each other, maybe find a different solution that's more acceptable. No point in tearing out group queue if it's actually working. If it can't be separated into solo/group, what else fixes the issue of driving your casual players out of the one aspect of the game that's made to drop in and play? Make R20 the entry point to the end-game queue, if there's a way to dump premades into that queue as well, even better. This is when you stop leveling, and the only progression left is gearing up, it makes sense to have it separated. This gives players leading up to R19 an arena where the vast majority of players are going to be at least in the same quality of gear and your premades will have that top tier to compete in like they're designed to do.

This won't solve anything, and here is the reason:

Spoiler:

I'm not good enough, or really interested in running with an organized group. I don't pay attention to called targets, my healing is moderate at best and takes a lot of focus on not hitting my damage buttons. I don't care about farming for awesome gear or grinding the AH for hundreds of gold. BiS is a like some unicorn that doesn't exist. Seems like I'm never near my team and I run head first into the other team to die instantly. When I am near my team, I'm the reason we're not winning a fight and it's clear to see for everyone else but myself.

You don't pay attention to targets. You are never near your team. You run head first into enemies only to die instantly. You clearly don't care about all this. But let me tell you, even if you had BiS gear you would still lose to a decent lvl 19 premade wearing Butcher/Calamitous/Murderer.

So instead of addressing any of the other points I've made, you bring up that bad players are gonna be bad? Seems like the easy way out of a deeper conversation. I do care deeply about WAR, RoR, and keeping this glorious PvP alive and well. You might want to acknowledge that it's more than just premades and tryhards that make up the players in this game, WAR has never been as hardcore as it thought it was. If that were the case, it wouldn't be an issue at all to see 12v12 premade groups every match.

[panakon1]

I think that the Real problem is that people cant cooparate with their teamates. When you join a SC you can join a party. Regardless of the party composition , everyone has a spesific role to fullfill. A tank has to start a fight and protect the healers , the dps has to focus the right targets and so on. I joined a random premade group the other day and everything worked fine . We won 5-6 SCs in the row until we seperate. When i join solo everything fails (not all the time). There are not enough healers or they play agressive , people are focusing the tanks and everyone is alone. I play chosen and sometimes I dont use guard because my party is full of rdps. I think the machmaking sytstem should stay as it is but people have to know their roles. I know that people sometimes want to try something different and play more casual but dont forget SCs are designed to be fast and have a more tactical aproach.

Something not so relative , I find the cost of t2 SC weapons rediculus High. This forces people to play SCs to get while they might prefered to do something else. If the t2 weapons cost 11 times the t1 , I dont want to imagine how much t4 are going to cost.

[tomato]

People who are against premade vs premade que are just afraid to get **** on playing another organized group instead of beeing able to stomp pugs.
Just grow some balls Penril, almost every newer online game has seperated ques for ppl whon want competitive and casuals.
The attitude "build a 6man group or gtfo " just hurts the playerbase.

[Penril]

@wargrimnir: My point was exactly that. Bad players will always lose to good players, no matter what the bracket/queue system is.

If you separate queues, people will just do what they used before: solo queue and say in vent "i got a Nordenwatch, what about you? You too? Ok go in" and do business as usual.

If you have a new bracket for lvl 12-19, premades with full Calamitous will still dominate.

If you have a new bracket for lvl 12-15, any premade will still dominate.

The only solution to not being farmed by a premade is to make/join one and play in a coordinated way. Any other solution is just a band-aid fix. That's why i pointed out that those who just want to have fun for a while and play casually should stick to oRvR. SCs are the "PvE end-game raids" of RoR.

[Penril]

People who are against premade vs premade que are just afraid to get **** on playing another organized group instead of beeing able to stomp pugs.
Just grow some balls Penril, almost every newer online game has seperated ques for ppl whon want competitive and casuals.
The attitude "build a 6man group or gtfo " just hurts the playerbase.

Awesome post. Very constructive too.

I solo as much as i premade, and lose several of those SCs. I don't complain because i realize that's how it is supposed to be.

I am against separate queuees because, with current population, waiting times for SCs would be too long. So in the end they would be hurting all the people that like to play in a group with friends, just to cater to the ones who refuse to group in a group PvP game.

[Azarael]

Unfortunately, I can see Penril's point.

If some players are determined to maliciously stomp weaker players, they're going to do that, regardless of the effect on the game. I find that such people don't tend to care about the long-term effects - they'll blame the developers of the game for not finding a solution to prevent their actions and move on to the next game.

[Tiggo]

Something not so relative , I find the cost of t2 SC weapons rediculus High. This forces people to play SCs to get while they might prefered to do something else. If the t2 weapons cost 11 times the t1 , I dont want to imagine how much t4 are going to cost.

you might be right with the other points but here you totally wrong.

t2 is the endgame right now and will be for long time. sc weapon costs are totally ok.

[Jaycub]

Not matter what you do for public MMR or skill brackets it will be flawed. You have to look no further than the popular mobas/FPS games atm.

Regardless it would be nice if there was some kind of "officially" sanctioned competitive environment so that those who want to play against the best they can, have that opportunity. Currently if a premade loses to another, the most common excuse is "Lol our pugs were **** XD" and a lot of the times they were not lying.

On top of this being a good opportunity to see how game balance holds up at high level play.