Overarching balance changes

[Bozzax]

I've read all of it ofc

No you did not. And if you did you are doing a great job of ignoring most of it.

I'd still like you to explain why 50% guard is op when playing in a party facing another party that use assist (normally 2 dps and 2 tanks).

In this typical setting you are focused by 4 and are healed by 2. Guard can be on 2 and you have ways of disabling guard or bypassing it with CC or target switch

Any conclusions from solo play and not assisting solos are invalid as guard is a pure party ability. So lets hear it

[Azarael]

Waa-waaa I don't likek zeir opnon waa!!

Here you are.

Shanell, do not post in this topic again.

Regarding CC neutralizing Guard: I always wondered why this wasn't the case to begin with. You're stunned or staggered. You cannot move. You cannot act. Therefore, you cannot intercept an attack. That Guard continues to work in these circumstances is quite weird.

Regarding suppressing a modification such as the above because of fears of RKDs or KDs in general becoming overpowered: Do not back off from something because it requires changes elsewhere. I've said it before - at some point you need to accept that the solution to many problems creates issues elsewhere which then need to be solved for. Gut the knockdowns of non-tank classes and have the best ones linked to two-handers.

[bloodi]

I'd still like you to

Read.

The.

Thread.

[Tankbeardz]

I'm sorry you don't get it. You made a shitty sugestion that would be broken as ****, you probobly understand why but are to embarsed to admit it.

Yeah, thats why i was talking about that issue in a previous post, because i am "embarrased" and dont want to talk about it
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15380&start=340#p169721

I'll explain it to you again. In ORVR the only way for dps to even survive more then 2 seconds against a large group of enemies is by tanks using Guard to mitgrate the damage. Now imagine a Engie or Marauder knocking down your frontline for 2 seonds. That means all those dps is gonna be instakilled meaning tanks are completly useless in RVR as they no longer fill any function.

Yeah because the only reason to ever have a tank is because they have guard, nothing else. If you remove guard they no longer fill any function.



The fact that you write this while trying to "teach" me how the game works, is quite funny.

And all coz 1 or 2 toons had a AoE knockdown. It turns the game into whoever AoE knockdown first wins.

So you got your group rifted and in aoe KD and you lost, what is the issue?

I've read all of it ofc

No you did not. And if you did you are doing a great job of ignoring most of it.

espically considering that order has more CC tools than destro

They dont.

I'm not sure where you are going here. Guard is the single most important function of a tank. If you took away all CC and buffs/debuffs...tanks would still be useful for this reason. While guarding, itself, doesn't take much skill, the act of swapping guard EFFECTIVELY takes focus and skill, especially when you are the only tank in the group. Yes SnB tanks can block...but it's not that hard for melee to run around them where block plays no factor. Paying attention to things like health bars, debuffs, and distance to guarded target is essential to tanking (this is not taking into account using CC appropriately).

[Bozzax]

Regarding CC neutralizing Guard: I always wondered why this wasn't the case to begin with. You're stunned or staggered. You cannot move. You cannot act. Therefore, you cannot intercept an attack. That Guard continues to work in these circumstances is quite weird.

Because guard and heals are balanced vs incoming damage, target switch and assist.

Currently they are balanced when teams of equal skills face off.

By the same logic lets remove /assist it is op

[Tankbeardz]

Waa-waaa I don't likek zeir opnon waa!!

Here you are.

Shanell, do not post in this topic again.

Regarding CC neutralizing Guard: I always wondered why this wasn't the case to begin with. You're stunned or staggered. You cannot move. You cannot act. Therefore, you cannot intercept an attack. That Guard continues to work in these circumstances is quite weird.

Regarding suppressing a modification such as the above because of fears of RKDs or KDs in general becoming overpowered: Do not back off from something because it requires changes elsewhere. I've said it before - at some point you need to accept that the solution to many problems creates issues elsewhere which then need to be solved for. Gut the knockdowns of non-tank classes and have the best ones linked to two-handers.

In order for this to be fair, you would also have to disable things like block, parry, dodge/disrupt, for all classes for the duration of the CC.

[bloodi]

I'm not sure where you are going here.

All i am saying is that disabling guard under certain CC is not something that will make tanks completely useless, as he implies. Nothing more.

[Penril]

One of the problems I see with any kind of nerf to guard (or creation of new counters) is that it would force many people to a 2 2 2 setup (which is currently the most used anyway). Running a 1 3 2 would simply be too risky.

[Tankbeardz]

I'm not sure where you are going here.

All i am saying is that disabling guard under certain CC is not something that will make tanks completely useless, as he implies. Nothing more.

I would be more in favor of a skill being added, to certain classes, that removes guard, than to change the way CC works for just tanks. If you change CC for a tank, you have to change CC for everyone else too IMO.

[Jaycub]

I think it's another discrepancy thing between say 6v6 / 12v12 senarios / ORvR etc... "just switch targets and assist" doesn't work to counter guard in a 6v6 situation with two tanks, or any highly organized playing field for that matter. You can super punt one away, KD/Stagger the other and get 3 seconds of a good burn in but it's not as if this is a done deal. The punted tank may have bellow or ID up, healers have defensive morales, DPS have detaunt and defensive M1's etc...

Target switching certainly works wonders against comps without proper tank setup, or 3-2-1 groups etc...

Any changes to guard are inevitably going to effect the many arenas of play and group composistions in WAR differently.


>Because guard and heals is balanced vs incoming damage
>By the same logic lets remove /assist it is op

You are gonna have to expand on this more because I don't get what you are trying to say.