Hey GMs,what did you do with engineers???....

[wargrimnir]

as i said since we can respec at any given time, all the above as to there will be more builds and less people will get the extra range is just trush talk.

That you will ignore, trash tosh anything we say is no news to me.

But nevertheless thanks for your reply.

It's rather disappointing that people have a unique chance in this game to help guide the balance of the server, but it's just dismissed or ignored. Devs do a lot of work on the server. As a painfully rhetorical question, why should they listen to players that refuse to give coherent arguments? They shouldn't.

Put in the work if you want to have a voice in development, or sit back and enjoy the ride.

[roadkillrobin]

There's a bit of a flaw with your policy of "you'll be ignored unless you give an elborate explanation"

1: Not everyonee can express emself in "elborate" english since english might not be their first language.
2: If you have complanints from alot of sources about something it usually idicates there is a problem, dissmissing em coz they don't give "elaborate" explanations is really weird.

It's pretty clear there's a problem with the range buff from turrets/deamons at keeps defences atm, They can stand on 3 floor and nuke people in the keep coutyards without any kinda threat back towards em, you can't detaunt or use CC to stop the streams of attacks either. They barly needs any heals coz only their mirror can reach em, and those gets pelted with attacks, oil and everything else from the 2nd floor aswell. Engies/Maguses also nukes rams down in a mather of seconds without any counter (as you can't reach em) Why is this more of a Engie problem then Magus? Coz engies have a ranged Auto Attack thats also gets boosted from the turret and there's alot more classes (and pets/npcs) that benefits from Armor debuff from turrets then elemental ressist from Pink Horror. On top of that Elctro Magnet has been undefendble now for several weeks. Thats why you see this massive complaints about Engies atm.

[blaqwar]

My feedback would be that I like the fact that the Devs are willing to make bold strides in improving the WAR experience and I love the extra range and damage they gave Engis/Magi, at least looking at it purely from a subjective perspective. Everyone loves an underdog story. Remember when Marauders used to be garbage? I was rooting for them so hard.

But I think this is not a very well-rounded change. The two careers need more work, they are easier and more fun to play but still lack a lot. They are very one dimensional compared to most of the other careers in WAR. Engi/Magi basically have 2 playstyles and neither of them are very well defined. You're either a turret shooting at people hoping they don't run away or you're a pull-bot, a slave to the group and a majestically looking source of weak AoE. They fall flat in any other aspect of being a RDPS.

I know that the Devs aren't done with the careers, I know there are going to be further changes. The turret playstyle received a buff. By itself it's fine. In the light of the further changes that need to be made - it's too much. I understand that the development focus has now shifted to once again fixing the ORvR system and that in the current state the career is better off and will attract more players (testers). But if they will be receiving any further improvements the range WILL need to be scaled back. Otherwise you're either making a demi-god career or you're changing a one trick pony to a two trick pony. Neither is desirable, especially compared to the **** David Copperfield, the aura tanks.

Edit: To the post above:
1. As far as I understand it this is a multilingual forum with sections where you can leave feedback in the prefered language that will be read/interpreted by multilingual members of the dev team. Sure there might be things lost in translation but I'd argue just as many things are lost when people communicate in half-typed asinine responses that online forums are full of.
2. If there is a "problem" with something there should be a part of complaints proportional in size to the illegible, whining gibberish that will give eloquent and elaborate explanations to the nature of the problem. Otherwise you can assume that the feedback you're getting is disgruntled players who put in as much effort into testing as they do into their feedback. In short - if whiners are whining and the valuable testers of the community are saying it's ok, you ignore the rabble.

[TenTonHammer]

The two careers need more work, they are easier and more fun to play but still lack a lot. They are very one dimensional compared to most of the other careers in WAR. Engi/Magi basically have 2 playstyles and neither of them are very well defined. You're either a turret shooting at people hoping they don't run away or you're a pull-bot, a slave to the group and a majestically looking source of weak AoE. They fall flat in any other aspect of being a RDPS.

What other options can you put, that wouldnt intrude on the other faction Rdps?

Kiting rdps is taken by SH and SW

Glass cannon rdps is taken by Sorc and BW

[blaqwar]

- In some builds the glass cannons can kite almost as well as a SW/SH (arguably just as well).
- The Festerbomb was meant to provide SWs with a nuke build (granted it wasn't well thought out and got nerfed).
- The Proc meta makes BW/Sorc into effectively a support class that is there to provide support damage and buff (shatter-reapply counterplay with the inevitable AoE cleanse nerf should make that clear).
- Keep defenses/attacks are ruled by AoE, Sorc/BW see the most success there as opposed to the "trench warfare" careers.

I don't see what's wrong with intruding, as long as one career isn't dominanting, slight advantages are fine. You should always want to play a SW/SH if your goal is kiting, however an Engi/Magus should still be viable doing it. If you want to AoE you should be playing a BW/Sorc, however a SH/SW should still have some amount of success with it. Etc.

What do Engi and Magus have except for the Magnet/Rift that would carve out a niche for them. What are they the kings of that other careers don't do better?

Survivability? Burst? Kiting? I don't think so.

What I'd like to see is the different playstyles being viable. Not them being the end-all be-all, as is the current state of the game, but viable. For all careers, not just these two. That, in my opinion, would be the pinnacle of WAR.

[roadkillrobin]

What other options can you put, that wouldnt intrude on the other faction Rdps?

Kiting rdps is taken by SH and SW

Glass cannon rdps is taken by Sorc and BW

Thats not really how they designed the classes.
Scout SW and Big Shootin SH aswell aswell as Agony Sorc and Inciniration BW's are also turret based masteries.
Engies and Maguses were designed as AoE range DoT dps wich doing either: Long Range few targets, Mid range mid targets or short range many targets. Thats why they have much more defensive capabillity and utllity then the other rdps classes. For DoT abillties to do it's job you need to stack em, and to get the moast out of em they need to tick for a long time. The main problem Engies/Maguses have are A: Burst dmg enviroment B: AoE cleansning completly countering the classes. The problem is imo not in the classes itself. It's what counters the classes to perform.

[peterthepan3]

One tree is designed as an AoE range DoT (though IFOC/SoC suggest otherwise); one is long-range single target; the last is closerange PBAoE burst/utility. I think the Engineer's grenade spec is more in line with that AoE long range than the Magus Changing spec. To be fair though the trees are all messed up so it's anyone's guess what the classes were intended to be

[roadkillrobin]

No the trees are also designed to work in conjunction with each other.
For example, Long Range-Few Targets pick up/boosts up skills from Grenadier/Change to support that playstyle. And Short Range-Many Targets can also pick up skills from Change/Grenadier to boost that playstyle. If you however chose to go for Change/Grenadier as main playstyle you can go more or less targets focused by boosting either Demon/Tinker or Havoc/Rifleman. But the dps playstyle that describes Engie/Magus the best is Damage Over Time.

[dur3al]

I just want to say that for me the eng/magus changes are not really the issue, is just how much more friendly the game is for rdps over all atm. I'm starting to believe even on WAR live it was more balanced between melee/range, melees dominating the small scale combats, and ranged the large scale combats, but currently in RoR - its all about rdps.

And btw, this is not an opinion... all it takes is for you to roam or play scs and you'll see that range is around 90% of the dps classes, quite sad if you ask me, not to mention how unbalanced it is considering only one side has range knock-downs (but that's another discussion entirely).

So if anything I'd like to add is a change towards the game in order to bring this balance between melee/range closer a bit.

[Akalukz]

I just want to say that for me the eng/magus changes are not really the issue, is just how much more friendly the game is for rdps over all atm. I'm starting to believe even on WAR live it was more balanced between melee/range, melees dominating the small scale combats, and ranged the large scale combats, but currently in RoR - its all about rdps.

I have noticed the same. RDPS is starting to heavily dominate the game.