Racial group fixing.

[Bozzax]

Yep you are correct there should be a % cap on how much morale DD you can get per second

Lately order has been running the 3+ IBs for pure cheese RR grind.

What puzzles me are why you guys saying we should increase morale gain?

[roadkillrobin]

1: Morale Gain is a Faction ballancing factor
2: Nerfing the in combat morale gain boost the effectiveness of the morale tactics.
3: Nerfing the tactics would screw with the ballance.

The In combat Morale Gain pretty much have to be the set vallue made by Mythic since alot of the game has been ballanced around it since day one. You could change it sure, but the pretty much every class would need to be reballanced.

[Bozzax]

Any increased morale gain in any way would be a disaster, sry mate. Even now we see 3+ IBs sync AOE M4 for 7.5K+ (ish) morale DD in one timestamp.

If you want to push for a "moral gain" nerf on Chosen / BO tactics it would be beneficial to do so in a dedicated thread

[roadkillrobin]

Please read my post again. The morale tactics are needed for Destruction due to ballance reasons. Im not purposing a nerf to them. Morale gain is a essential ballancing factor in this game and nerfing the combat morale gain affects the overall ballance. If you think its bad with IB then go look at SH's Big Shoota m4 or Stabbity M4 and take into consideration that SH's also have a morale pumping tactic.

[Penril]

No i'm not. the less variables you got the easier the ballance gets.

Exactly, which is why balancing 2 realms is much easier than balancing 6.

Geez...

No thats not how it works....
Ballancing a skill to work for 4 classes vs 3 pairings is alot less then ballancing a skill so it works with 12 classes vs 12.
Geez....

Wrong. You are trying to balance 6 realms. Even the slightest change to one class can make one faction significantly stronger (or weaker) than the rest. Specially since all these factions are very different from each other (Dwarfs and GS have 1 class in common; Chaos and HEs have 0 unless you count the SW/Mara mechanic, etc). You think Dark Elves would care that they are OP against, say, Dwarves, when they are constantly getting wrecked by Empire? That's balance? This isn't Rock-Paper-Scissors.

With 2 realms, no matter how many classes you have, you just mirror 90%+ of the skills. Then have a few unique/different ones for the sake of "uniqueness" and you are pretty much done. Even though people complain a lot about class balance in this game, fact is Realm-wise Order and Destro are pretty much balanced.

Balancing 6 realms easier than balancing 2... lol...

[TenTonHammer]

Hammerers have a few effects left in the game. Torque was playing with them a couple days ago. Making new stuff is quite a ways off, but there's a bunch of random partially finished stuff.

I dont understand your post


but i take it then that you are saying that what footpatrol said about race specific only affects is possible?

[Bozzax]

The In combat Morale Gain pretty much have to be the set vallue made by Mythic since alot of the game has been ballanced around it since day one.

ROR 6man: 10 morale each second that you are in combat
WAR 6man: ~30 morale each second that you are in combat

Spoiler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU8EKL09i_8

Disagree, tripping the base morale gain reverting it back to Myths values would be a disaster.

By doing so we would see ORVR quickly turning into a morale dump fest of EPIC proportions as you can pretty much kill everything in range every 120s. (Racial morales are bad for the exact same reason.)

IMO: Morales should be your pepper and salt not the main course

[roadkillrobin]

Yes it is. Since GS can't join groups of Chaos mean they don't need bother about ballancing what impact that spell have when grouped up with Chaos. What you are describing is exactly how the game works now. They need to consider every class and every comp possible when doing a ballance change. That limits drasticly when you narrow down to comps of only 4 choises rather then 12. And if a spell is getting to good against everything for whatever reason its not ballanced and need to be tweaked individually. If we have a spell that does magic dmg for example. You can have 1 oposing realm being very good at ressising magic damage. 1 being ballanced at ressisting magic damage and 1 being bad at it. That way the magic damage spell is only gonna be super effective against 1/3 wich means on averege the spell is ballanced.

[Luth]

Hammerers have a few effects left in the game. Torque was playing with them a couple days ago. Making new stuff is quite a ways off, but there's a bunch of random partially finished stuff.

I dont understand your post


but i take it then that you are saying that what footpatrol said about race specific only affects is possible?

The early concept for the dwarf mDD class was the "Hammerer", not the slayer. Iirc they decided to create the slayer instead, because IB and hammerer would have been looked nearly the same.
Grim is likely talking about abilities in the client from the early development of the hammerer concept.

[footpatrol2]

Ya... you can build a hammer unit if you want from the tabletop game. Its called taking a bunch of vengeance Ironbreakers. This game mimic's the tabletop quite a bit.

Morales should be your pepper and salt not the main course

T4 by design is about morale 4 bombs. It is designed to be the main course. Its why a lot of morale 4's cost 16 points to get. There is a Reason those morales cost so high. There is a reason they are on the specific classes that they are on. There was a reason why the racial morale gain tactic was in the game. It wasn't for some fluffy purpose.

I've been writing about this stuff for months. I wrote about this in origins of balance thread in my sig.

You have 100 sec's to build your cannon on the back of the chariot. Your opposition has 100 sec's also. You are trying to kill specific classes to tear down their morale bombs impact to synchronize and defensive morale cycle's to synchronize. Its about organization/coordination and who is best at it.

Think of it as baking a cake and your trying to get your cake done faster or outlast their AP damage until your cake is finished. Once its finished the meta flips. Now your trying to either fake out the opposition to get them to waste their morale bomb or your trying to land your morale bomb.

I can go into detail on how all this stuff breaks down. Their is a entire meta. But I won't to keep it short.