[Warrior Priest] - Grace

[Eathisword]

I stated we had no utility... only to spend an entire paragraph explaining to you that we had some skills that could be categorized as utility but that they were useless. Thanks for quoting me saying I was wrong by saying exactly what I wrote : Every other class has better.

You can argue all you want that we have some utility. It still remains useless and won't solve anything.

Now the constant chance of being chained CC... really ? Blown up ? We are one of the hardest class to kill in any spec (except Wrath, maybe). With 1 guard you can face tank a melee train of 4-5 people, while healing your group either in grace or salvation.

Oh, and I understand Grace WP fairly well, played one from RR1 to RR100 and mained it for a year, live. The only ''risk'' you have is bad reliability. Is all.

Being in melee range adds little risk. Good Salvation WP play in melee range too. In guard range, challenge range, just in case. You want the enemy attention. If they attack you (a very difficult target to kill unless you're a baddie) it frees your dps and your squishy RP/AM healer friend.

And don't tell me you shouldn't get guard... Good tanks float it around as needed. It's not like they have to pick who they guard and never change. If your tanks do, boot them :p

Sinceriously,
Lenie, Leningrad, formerly known as Eathisbook.

[Custonello]

You can argue all you want that we have some utility. It still remains useless and won't solve anything.

Now the constant chance of being chained CC... really ? Blown up ? We are one of the hardest class to kill in any spec (except Wrath, maybe). With 1 guard you can face tank a melee train of 4-5 people, while healing your group either in grace or salvation.

Oh, and I understand Grace WP fairly well, played one from RR1 to RR100 and mained it for a year, live. The only ''risk'' you have is bad reliability. Is all.

Being in melee range adds little risk. Good Salvation WP play in melee range too. In guard range, challenge range, just in case. You want the enemy attention. If they attack you (a very difficult target to kill unless you're a baddie) it frees your dps and your squishy RP/AM healer friend.

And don't tell me you shouldn't get guard... Good tanks float it around as needed. It's not like they have to pick who they guard and never change. If your tanks do, boot them :p

Sinceriously,
Lenie, Leningrad, formerly known as Eathisbook.

This post gentleman, just explained why you all suck at plaing warrior priest hahahahahaha, This is like my words taking out of my mouth and put into text. The only thing that the WP needs is a bit of utility, but hell each class needs a weakness else how are you supose to kill them eh? you all just want the warrior priest to get better harder to kill, wich realy does not solve the problem cause a WP is alrady hard to kill damit! why do they get focused in fights? cause they are squishy? well some are but the reason why I would focus a WP and god forbid that cause ordre is the righteuos path, is so that I could get that selfhealing badass, semi dps, teams supporting monk of the field making victory easier.

[ThePollie]

why do they get focused in fights?

Because a Sorcerer can take off 2/3rds of our health with a face-roll combo. Because disarming us negates all of our survivability if the team doesn't instantly jump to save us. Because we are melee-reliant, and just a snare and punt is all it takes to cripple us.

Oh, I've built Grace to be tanky, before. I've had three Sorcerers focusing me for entire matches and not gone down. But it destroyed my damage and healing, in the process.

Armour talismans cripple our healing. People argue you can just attack the squishier backline, by all means try. The backline all have access to disarms, punts, snares, and can just detaunt you to gut your healing, anyway. Assuming the entire enemy team didn't just turn around and train you to death.

We don't all measure a class by how well they perform in a tightly coordinated premade trashing PUGS.

[PartizanRUS]

Healing? Salvation and Runepriests can heal just as much, if not more, from a much safer position.
Damage? We can't even scratch a Slayer or Witch Hunter, on our better days.
Point guard? We aren't nearly durable enough to hold ground, and are easily forced off with CC.
Utility? We have a short snare that relies on Curses to function, a 4 second Silence that requires melee range, and an AoE stagger that requires Morale 3.
We can't punt targets, we can't knock them down or disarm them, we can't use Charge to rush past the line to threaten healers or mages, and we can't even do anything about being knocked down or disarmed ourselves.

Hence my conclusion back then, the only thing we could do better is having a HEAL DEBUFF tactic in grace mirrored to the RP, zealot or DoK one. WAAAAAGGGHHHHH We wouldn't heal better then salvation or damage more then MDPS, but we could support both group of classes well.

There is reason for WP having healing, buff and support abilities in Grace, because its melee Healer spec. Melee dps spec is Wrath, where you can get better heal debuff.

[ThePollie]

There is reason for WP having healing, buff and support abilities in Grace, because its melee Healer spec. Melee dps spec is Wrath, where you can get better heal debuff.

Did this needed clarifying?

We wouldn't heal better then salvation or damage more then MDPS, but we could support both group of classes well.

Which will never work. This is already why competitive groups will not take us. We don't hit hard enough to override healing, even with a heal debuff. Our form of healing is easily countered by one use of Disarm, or even just punting us.

Against two Salvation priests, DoT damage is severely crippled, as are debuffs, and you need to get access to the backline to disable them. A combination of that, heal debuff, and group focus will bring down a target.

Against Grace, knockdown one and disarm the other. You don't even need a heal debuff, at that point. Just pick a target and melt them. Or just melt the WP, they can't stop you at this point, anyway. You could just have one and a Salvation priest, but no one healer will outpace the entire enemy team diving on a target that's been heal debuffed.

We need to be able to heal as much as Salvation, or any half-way intelligent team would just rather take a dedicated healer they know can keep pace. We need damage to use lifetaps and to justify the risk of going to the front line. The problem is people see "buff damage" and think "I want to replace slayers and be a healer, too."

It won't happen. And right now I'd rather see our utility to the team increased, not our damage.

[Azarael]

I read what you are sating since the beginning of the thread Aza, and I don't get it. You said you don't want a Radiance spammer. You don't want a mdps in disguise. You also said melee WP was supposed to regenerate fury in melee and cast heals with that resource.

So I recorded that : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=960Ho-BdpIc

Forgo that I am salvation spec and using a 1 hander (just didn't have a good 2 hander). That is a WP regenerating fury as melee. I am salvation spec, stacking willpower, so good heals, no damage. If you resolve MAD, the way you present it, I would have done 60k damage instead of 15k, while still being the top healing class + AoE detaunt with 2 hander. IMO, that can't work... Book WP bug me, but they don'T gain their power from the books. You can heal near as much without them. I'm lost...

I don't understand what you think you proved by posting this.

1) You're a Salvation spec WP playing without a book. Certainly you demonstrate that 8RF/s isn't integral to playing the class, but there's a difference between playing with high Str and a two-hander broadcasting "I DEPEND ON HEALING IN MELEE AND CAN'T KEEP MYSELF UP WITHOUT THAT, PLEASE KILL ME" and playing with a one-handed weapon and clear indicators that you're heal spec close to the frontline. If Grace WP actually WORKED, people would be using it and you wouldn't get flamed to merry hell for being seen with a two-handed weapon. I don't see what's to dispute about that.

I should also point out that you're posting in a Grace thread while playing Salvation spec...

2) Unless you're playing against strong opposition who are going to actually punish you for what you're doing there, you don't actually prove anything other than that your opposition is bad. Grace WP and Sacrifice DoK can already put up good numbers if they're not being punished for the choice they're making. The problem comes, as it always has done, when people see a WP that is known to be Grace (and not Salvation) and thus can't sustain itself without being in melee, and pressure that WP to give it the choice of attempting to stay in melee and dying because it can't sustain itself and retreating and dying because it can't heal itself. That was the problem the AoE detaunt was designed to solve - that pretty much everything from parry to CC to raw damage could pressure the Grace WP out of being able to do anything.

3) and this is a point that I raised much earlier: If you can do just the same or better from the backline with a book for much less risk, you can generate all the resource you want in melee range against people who aren't going to take advantage of your position and wasting of GCDs on attacking skills and it still won't matter.

[ThePollie]

2) Unless you're playing against strong opposition who are going to actually punish you for what you're doing there, you don't actually prove anything other than that your opposition is bad. Grace WP and Sacrifice DoK can already put up good numbers if they're not being punished for the choice they're making.

You heard it here, folks.

This is what, more often than not, compromises my ability to support my team.

Carrying a two-hander, hell even being recognized as a healer alone, will get you focused like hell by a lot of people. People familiar with the game, players coming from WoW who see healer and think "kill this first", or someone who just thought it looks scary and decided to target it. Warrior Priests do not have the durability to be constantly focused, self-healing be damned.

[Azarael]

That's the crux of the issue. You have to be recognised as a Grace spec healer in order for players to jump on you as a free kill. If you're specced Salvation, you prove nothing.

I've been considering this issue and linking the number of extra targets affected by Repent to some function of the user's Strength bonus from items, just to make SURE Salvation WPs don't hijack this change. The problem comes in that this formula isn't transparent to clients.

[PartizanRUS]

We wouldn't heal better then salvation or damage more then MDPS, but we could support both group of classes well.

Which will never work. This is already why competitive groups will not take us. We don't hit hard enough to override healing, even with a heal debuff. Our form of healing is easily countered by one use of Disarm, or even just punting us.

Against two Salvation priests, DoT damage is severely crippled, as are debuffs, and you need to get access to the backline to disable them. A combination of that, heal debuff, and group focus will bring down a target.

Against Grace, knockdown one and disarm the other. You don't even need a heal debuff, at that point. Just pick a target and melt them. Or just melt the WP, they can't stop you at this point, anyway. You could just have one and a Salvation priest, but no one healer will outpace the entire enemy team diving on a target that's been heal debuffed.

Welcome to grim and dark age of Warhammer FB.

I've said it so many times in this thread and I'm still waiting for a decent reply to it - nobody wants a hybrid. You either compete as a strong DPS or as a strong healer, but if you try to split evenly between two things, you suddenly are no longer good enough. The only way it actually works is if you are competitive at ONE thing and have the ability to do another thing, but with the balancing factor of risk involved.

The reason you have unreliable heals is because of MAD. Get kicked out of the front line and you're forced to rely on casted heals that were deliberately gimped thanks to crappy design choices. Again, it seems people are looking at the current state of the game and trying to dictate what the class' role is based on that. If playing Grace has too many simple counters, deal with that instead of trying to create a melee DPS out of a class that isn't competently designed around that ideal.

I read what you are sating since the beginning of the thread Aza, and I don't get it. You said you don't want a Radiance spammer. You don't want a mdps in disguise. You also said melee WP was supposed to regenerate fury in melee and cast heals with that resource.

So I recorded that : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=960Ho-BdpIc

Worst WP mistake video I ever seen.

I've been considering this issue and linking the number of extra targets affected by Repent to some function of the user's Strength bonus from items, just to make SURE Salvation WPs don't hijack this change. The problem comes in that this formula isn't transparent to clients.

You have to implement check to filter if you have Grace tree skillpoints or not, in case if you want aoe detaunt be reserved for Grace only. Otherwise every 2h user will have free aoe detaunt.

PS

Welcome to grim and dark age of Warhammer FB.

Is that supposed to be an argument? The setting is morbid, therefore game imbalance is to be expected?

You are not expected to whine about the odds. Kill all the mutants in silence.

[ThePollie]

Welcome to grim and dark age of Warhammer FB.

Is that supposed to be an argument? The setting is morbid, therefore game imbalance is to be expected?