Are BWs obsolete?

[Arteker616]

Aboute orders full range setups without any mdps and only few tanks is a real problem when facing milions maras, bos, bgs but that is not bw weakness rather realm balance issue. Sorcs doing pretty fine with solid frontline

tanks in general is not the issue but zillons of rdps wich doesnt bother to assist is . along the 3 or 4 engis per sc giving free inmunitys to everyone so taking guards or puntin healers to back lines is kinda problematic.

Nothing break more ur heart as a tank wen u single punt a healer to backline in order and u find ur rdps are just hitting the bg or the bo and the healer just walk away.

[Aurandilaz]

BW might be one of the strongest rdps classes now, especially with the disrupt increase.
Other int casters do not have BurnThrough nor Flashfire, which is still very potent despite having slightly longer ICD. You have the same dot arsenal and same basic rotation as Sorc, except in BWs case, the burst actually Burns Through.
Sorcs loses 40% of GCDs to Disrupt? Crap. BW loses 40% of GCDs to Disrupt, awesome more Flashfire and 0 sec Fireballs that hit through tank shields and WE antiDisrupt Elixirs.

And if you get stomped by Destro melee, it means your teamplay is just shaite because you allow the enemy to close 100 feet gap in the first place. They need to get to you before being able to hurt you, meanwhile you can melt them 100-80 feet away! Use brains and positioning, avoid dying, keep pew pewing from distance like most of the "good" order rdps players do.

Get into a group with Engi or SW so you can focus assist on those "destro mdps hordes" from miles away and melt them before they lay a finger on you. (is it any wonder that Order still seems to favour rdps spam over playing melee?)
Get a Kotb or SW to buff your crit, get a WP to buff your wounds, get a WL to pull targets with 3 sec fetch followed by 3 sec KD, allowing you 6 secs of freedom to burst that poor victim down.

BW is the rdps class that has suffered maybe least from the recent changes, have fun doing anything of the above on a Sorc...

[covenn]

As a RP, I pretty much can ignore sorcs across the board. It is the SHs that are the problem because I can't negate most of their damage. Even had one kill himself trying to kill me lol

Back on topic though, I do think the combustion damage needs to be reduced to be inline with all the damage reductions the class has compared to live. It was high risk/high reward ...now it seems to be high risk/average reward

[TenTonHammer]

Lets be real and not pretend otherwise, even with the DoT changes RDPS still run the show

Nope not at pug scs without solid frontline rdps are pretty much doomed

Thats orders own fault for choosing to go the route of the lowest hanging fruit and since the days where we were all stuck in T1 and choose to play nothing but SW, BW, healers and DPS AM 70-80% of order was nothing but that

they brought it on themselves

secondly

pug SC, 12 all randoms thrown together with no communication or coordination what can we really expect


secondly if the class/role distribution system that we had in place back in the day really worked so that each side had an equal number of tanks and healers such a thing would not be an "real" issue

[Arteker616]

BW might be one of the strongest rdps classes now, especially with the disrupt increase.
Other int casters do not have BurnThrough nor Flashfire, which is still very potent despite having slightly longer ICD. You have the same dot arsenal and same basic rotation as Sorc, except in BWs case, the burst actually Burns Through.
Sorcs loses 40% of GCDs to Disrupt? Crap. BW loses 40% of GCDs to Disrupt, awesome more Flashfire and 0 sec Fireballs that hit through tank shields and WE antiDisrupt Elixirs.

And if you get stomped by Destro melee, it means your teamplay is just shaite because you allow the enemy to close 100 feet gap in the first place. They need to get to you before being able to hurt you, meanwhile you can melt them 100-80 feet away! Use brains and positioning, avoid dying, keep pew pewing from distance like most of the "good" order rdps players do.

Get into a group with Engi or SW so you can focus assist on those "destro mdps hordes" from miles away and melt them before they lay a finger on you. (is it any wonder that Order still seems to favour rdps spam over playing melee?)
Get a Kotb or SW to buff your crit, get a WP to buff your wounds, get a WL to pull targets with 3 sec fetch followed by 3 sec KD, allowing you 6 secs of freedom to burst that poor victim down.

BW is the rdps class that has suffered maybe least from the recent changes, have fun doing anything of the above on a Sorc...

i agree with you about the bw status , still Destru will just murder along they had decent tanks and few heals , since u can ignore the tanks since no mdps to worry ur heals u can go direct to order rdps in an all out assault and wipe em clean, it depend on healers tanks but it u got these and u run into typical 4 tanks few heals all rdps in order u win ,

why? because a rdp team cannot push for **** in the general and more than once their tanks will be unable to push in due to lack of support .
its pure maths imo if ur local order rdps team doesnt take a minimum of 3 destrus in the first clash it will eventualy go for destru once they push in

[Reesh]

Actually, I'd vote for SW being in a better spot then BW is.
It's better for solo or kite play.
It's better for group composition. If I'd had to choose on a final dps spot in a group in 3-2-1 setup, I'd always pick SW instead of BW. They've got more utility, whilst with the disrupt meta BWs/Sorcs obsolete burst isn't anything that you can depend on.

About all that QQ regarding burn through - give it to sorcs, remove it from bws - I wouldn't have any problem with that as this tactic isn't in any way a game changer or an I win button.

[Zaxxond]

BW's are fine where they are at. The nerf to flashfire was needed as it was OP with the DoT avoidance change. If you pug in all SC's, you will die, and die a lot. The best thing to do when pugging is only que for the solo que and pick another RDPS to assist off of. This will maximize your burst and lead to more DB's.

[KikkL]

Every class besides healer,tank,we/wh, is obselete.

[Sulorie]

Every class besides healer,tank,we/wh, is obselete.

You mean every class you play?


Dot changes have some flaws but disrupt changes are no part of it.
OP seems to have pug problems. The same problems you had on live with solo bw/sorc.

[bwdaWAR]

I play a BW atm lvl 35. Without good gear in SCs you are a poor poor training dummy. I think it will be better in full gear with some disrupt reduction, but that is FAR away. I also play WE and I felt bad for BWs honestly. I thought maybe they are so terrible gameplaywise (the players), and then I rolled a BW myself.
Now that I have seen it from the other side, it is really like that. In a PuG you are Victim N1 (especially with all enemies constantly having immunities against the few ccs that I have), also the massive Destru melee/tanktrains in SCs are nightmare, it is the WORST class that I leveled in RvR/SC (PuG) (Sidenote: WE/WH is the worst for PvE haha).

The combustion backdraft is really punishing if you have to recast dots and debuffs so many times. + the change for free instant proccs, makes it even worse.
Since the change, it feels like everyone and their mum specs full Deft Defender.
Would be interesting, if the top BWs could argument from a standpoint of NOT BiS geared BW gameplay, especially without a premade and constant guard/heals.

I still have some fun if RnGesus is on my side, but overall, it was much easier with other class especially in SCs I have trouble as BW. At least I got the Annihilator set now, havent tested it yet.

So... basically, after playing a class that is officially for solo play, you switch to the class that's infamous of its dependence on team support to be able to do anything, potentially the most dependent from all the classes... and then notice it's harder to play in a PUG playstyle where you're highly unlikely to get exactly that support? I don't know, but that'd feel kinda... well, obvious to me, regardless of at what stage of the RoR development that happened.