Status of the Choppa ?.

[Panzerkasper]

6v6 is worthless. only open rvr warband keeps count. and despite i rapetrain choppas in 1v1 i still sasys game is not intended for 1v1 but i just gave an opinion concerning a class that need half warband on it to keep it alive. compare choppa and WL status then you see what i mean.

You mean the high class gaming done by mindless zerglings with the fights that are just decided by who has the better morale drops?
The nice thing about this game is that there are different ascpects to it and people enjoy what they like most. One of the biggest problem here always was that almost all balance decisions were done one WBvsWB size gameplay and that's why so much in the balance department is out of tune.

[Tesq]

6v6 is worthless. only open rvr warband keeps count. and despite i rapetrain choppas in 1v1 i still sasys game is not intended for 1v1 but i just gave an opinion concerning a class that need half warband on it to keep it alive. compare choppa and WL status then you see what i mean.

You mean the high class gaming done by mindless zerglings with the fights that are just decided by who has the better morale drops?
The nice thing about this game is that there are different ascpects to it and people enjoy what they like most. One of the biggest problem here always was that almost all balance decisions were done one WBvsWB size gameplay and that's why so much in the balance department is out of tune.

mah wb vs wb, debeatable.....live changes and here aswell a lot of times didn't make sense for neither class perspective, what class should do, nor make em "viable" in more aspect of the game as much is possible; or denying the existence of problem.

[peterthepan3]

Will spoiler this as I don't want to diverge from OP, where necessary.

Spoiler:

6v6 is worthless. only open rvr warband keeps count. and despite i rapetrain choppas in 1v1 i still sasys game is not intended for 1v1 but i just gave an opinion concerning a class that need half warband on it to keep it alive. compare choppa and WL status then you see what i mean.

On the contrary: 6v6 upwards is where balance predominately revolves around. Ensuring classes can function in 6v6 up to 24v24 is more important for balance than how they perform in solo/unorganised environments.

[Diggot]

You can't balance a class under the assumption that it will always have a pockethealer and guard. Because then you have to take into account that the enemy will as well, and then what exactly makes the choppa shine compared to the other ?.
Take a guarded dps-AM, BW, Slayer, WL... they all EASILY outshine the choppa with or without support - then where's your reasoning ...

Like so many order-players has stated - "when i see a choppa, its a free kill" .

[mubbl]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

@Panzerkasper
What i'm trying to say is that since there are many change which need to be implmented i'd prefere to see them implemented all at once rather then to have the rampage change now and must wait for all the other change for an undetermined amount of time.
To be clear i said many time that imo "choppa is fine", but what i mean is that choppa is a valuable class and if played well can give huge satisfaction.
if someone look with attention there are a lot of things that need to be fixed in order to make the class shine and this is undeniable.


@Blakokami
choppa and slayer are tightly bounder, you cant talk of one without compare it with his mirror.
if was only for bleed 'em out the problem would be solved a lot of time ago. the problem is the entire slayer: ID, rampage, shatter limb, spellbreaker and devastate. take this five ability, compare them with choppa's counterpart, entirely (damege, CD, AP cost, etc...) and then come back and tell me that choppa dont need abit of love.
Slayer are gamebreaking machine. "rampage" counter "confusing movement", "spellbreaker" counter "dat tickles", "devastate" counter "i'm da biggest", ID deal a lot more damage of GTDC and have shorter CD and better longer duration. and last but not least "shatter limbs" counter "chop fasta" since the fisrt increase CD of enemies around slayer while "chop fasta" only of your party. and those are the problem that slayer generate ONLY with choppa, without consider the problem that slayer generate in reletion with other classes!
edit:
now chose: nerf the slayer of give some love to choppa?

you miss some points like roll or usage in a grp, what choppa have and slayer not....very focused on the othersides grass (=

Sure, elaborate please, i will wait

you can use chopfasta(shatter able) to counter shatter limbs(cleanseable)(cleanse>shatter) also it has awesome synergies with other classes, you have a pull/additional speedbuff, 100% crit tactic (ygs), and crit dmg, rampage is awesome for aoe and just medicore for st cause of basic game mechanic (=, you ahve a very strong outgoing healdebuff as 2h (the reasons i never understand sigi should be pug stomping).

[peterthepan3]

You can't balance a class under the assumption that it will always have a pockethealer and guard. Because then you have to take into account that the enemy will as well, and then what exactly makes the choppa shine compared to the other ?.
Take a guarded dps-AM, BW, Slayer, WL... they all EASILY outshine the choppa with or without support - then where's your reasoning ...

Like so many order-players has stated - "when i see a choppa, its a free kill" .

A guarded dps AM or BW will not outshine the Choppa with equal support. A guarded Choppa (with sufficient debuffs and good tanks at his disposal) is as much of a threat in a 6v6 as a WL (if not more).

You can 100% balance a class around these conditions because it is a group game. If the game marketed itself as a solo game, then you would have a point, but the game revolves around group/wb from the get-go: PQs, open warbands, scenarios, dungeons, city sieges, forts, keeps - good luck doing any of them alone.

The fact that 90% of Choppas play the class horrendously (#sorrynotsorry) does not mean the class is crap.

[Ysaran]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

you miss some points like roll or usage in a grp, what choppa have and slayer not....very focused on the othersides grass (=

Sure, elaborate please, i will wait

you can use chopfasta(shatter able) to counter shatter limbs(cleanseable)(cleanse>shatter) also it has awesome synergies with other classes, you have a pull/additional speedbuff, 100% crit tactic (ygs), and crit dmg, rampage is awesome for aoe and just medicore for st cause of basic game mechanic (=, you ahve a very strong outgoing healdebuff as 2h (the reasons i never understand sigi should be pug stomping).

what you say is true, i wont negate that choppa is strong, but shatter limbs is always usefull while chop fasta is useless if used without both good tming and good composition of the party. moreove shatter limb can hit up to 9 target while chop fasta only 6. the pull is quite usefull but require a great investement specially if you consider that you have to spend 14 pt in an aoe tree to have a ST ability

You can't balance a class under the assumption that it will always have a pockethealer and guard. Because then you have to take into account that the enemy will as well, and then what exactly makes the choppa shine compared to the other ?.
Take a guarded dps-AM, BW, Slayer, WL... they all EASILY outshine the choppa with or without support - then where's your reasoning ...

Like so many order-players has stated - "when i see a choppa, its a free kill" .

A guarded dps AM or BW will not outshine the Choppa with equal support. A guarded Choppa (with sufficient debuffs and good tanks at his disposal) is as much of a threat in a 6v6 as a WL (if not more).

You can 100% balance a class around these conditions because it is a group game. If the game marketed itself as a solo game, then you would have a point, but the game revolves around group/wb from the get-go: PQs, open warbands, scenarios, dungeons, city sieges, forts, keeps - good luck doing any of them alone.

The fact that 90% of Choppas play the class horrendously (#sorrynotsorry) does not mean the class is crap.

you said a big truth, biggest problem of choppas are choppa's player

[Panzerkasper]

you can use chopfasta(shatter able) to counter shatter limbs(cleanseable)(cleanse>shatter) also it has awesome synergies with other classes, you have a pull/additional speedbuff, 100% crit tactic (ygs), and crit dmg, rampage is awesome for aoe and just medicore for st cause of basic game mechanic (=, you ahve a very strong outgoing healdebuff as 2h (the reasons i never understand sigi should be pug stomping).

WTF did i just read?

Counter a 10sec downtime ability with a 50sec downtime ability? Nice try next.

The aoe pull is a fun tool but worth nothing unless provided without additional lockdown and easily interruptable. I guarded a Choppa couple of days ago in a wb and he used GTDC multiple times in a fight and never ever got stopped.
Seriously if order players are too stupid to use their taunts, staggers, range kds and whatnot, its not the choppas fault.

The 100% crit tactic is garbage since it only effects secondary skills. The heal channel with 100% crit is a nice gimmick but the tactic doesn't effect your anytimers, nor your AAs so it's not worth slotting.

Rampage mediocre as st ability is such a laughable statement i won't even elaborate any further.

[oaliaen]

The fact that 90% of Choppas play the class horrendously (#sorrynotsorry) does not mean the class is crap.

What do you mean in "play the class horrendously" ? Elaborate pls.

[peterthepan3]

The fact that 90% of Choppas play the class horrendously (#sorrynotsorry) does not mean the class is crap.

What do you mean in "play the class horrendously" ? Elaborate pls.

Sure: most choppas roam around solo, with no dedicated heals or tanks, charging into battles without any assistance whatsoever, and die ad infinitum. Not indicative of the potency of the class at all.