Why do you think that WH Online (Mythic) didn't was successfull?

[Darosh]

This is not a MOBA. Build a community, get to know each other, don't be a ****. That's how you get new people to stay. By making it more gamey and accessible you get themepark MMO's, like the dozens that have failed since WAR launched. A million people show up for the ride, and promptly get off and leave once it's over. Games with no soul are bound to end up in MMO hell.

So much this. If MMOs and other games are played like singleplayer games, **** will invetiably hit the fan. See for example 'hard-implemented', completly automated lfg-tools in WoW.... they pretty much killed the community with that, the only thing that keeps player around is the time-sink and a variety of other measures - certainly not the mutist or otherwise toxic playerbase.
Another example would be GW2's or ESO's snowflakey swiss-knife approach... see how their PvP in general, but especially their RvR turned out.

Abbd.: Especially PvP centric games that revolve around groups are made or broken by their community. See live's pug-copalypse and it's impact on game design after the fact - it coerced Mythic to make bad things worse, as the feedback they've gotten was garbage-tier. Garbage-tier feedback + garbage devs, backers and managing = terrible things happening.

[Owondyah]

i agree with post above me and post that's quoted in it.

100% truth

[Elemint]

Spoiler:

So much this. If MMOs and other games are played like singleplayer games, **** will invetiably hit the fan. See for example 'hard-implemented', completly automated lfg-tools in WoW.... they pretty much killed the community with that, the only thing that keeps player around is the time-sink and a variety of other measures - certainly not the mutist or otherwise toxic playerbase.
Another example would be GW2's or ESO's snowflakey swiss-knife approach... see how their PvP in general, but especially their RvR turned out.

Abbd.: Especially PvP centric games that revolve around groups are made or broken by their community. See live's pug-copalypse and it's impact on game design after the fact - it coerced Mythic to make bad things worse, as the feedback they've gotten was garbage-tier. Garbage-tier feedback + garbage devs, backers and managing = terrible things happening.

Why the **** do so many people complain about Dungeon Finder is beyond me to comprehend. "It killed the sense of community!" - no, it killed the pointless time waste that was looking for a group for an hour, waiting until everyone comes to the instance, looking for a replacement for the guy that got bored with the 1h long wait, going in and then praying to every god from every lore that people won't disappear if a wipe happens. All DF did was make action flow faster by removing all the tedium. I'm not a 16 year old anymore, i don't have all **** day mate. If you wanted socialisation, there were still guilds, there were still global chats, and nothing stopped you from trying incite people for an instance trough LFG. Imagine if you had to stand in front of a scenario enterance with your group if you wanted to do scenarios - just the idea of it makes me want to scream quit wasting my ********** time

Oh, and stop using abbervation abbervation instead of addendum abbervation, it triggers me so

Dial it back - Torque

[Darosh]

Spoiler:

So much this. If MMOs and other games are played like singleplayer games, **** will invetiably hit the fan. See for example 'hard-implemented', completly automated lfg-tools in WoW.... they pretty much killed the community with that, the only thing that keeps player around is the time-sink and a variety of other measures - certainly not the mutist or otherwise toxic playerbase.
Another example would be GW2's or ESO's snowflakey swiss-knife approach... see how their PvP in general, but especially their RvR turned out.

Abbd.: Especially PvP centric games that revolve around groups are made or broken by their community. See live's pug-copalypse and it's impact on game design after the fact - it coerced Mythic to make bad things worse, as the feedback they've gotten was garbage-tier. Garbage-tier feedback + garbage devs, backers and managing = terrible things happening.

Why the **** do so many people complain about Dungeon Finder is beyond me to comprehend. "It killed the sense of community!" - no, it killed the pointless time waste that was looking for a group for an hour, waiting until everyone comes to the instance, looking for a( replacement for the guy that got bored with the 1h long wait, going in and then praying to every god from every lore that people won't disappear if a wipe happens. All DF did was make action flow faster by removing all the tedium. I'm not a 16 year old anymore, i don't have all **** day mate. If you wanted socialisation, there were still guilds, there were still global chats, and nothing stopped you from trying incite people for an instance trough LFG. Imagine if you had to stand in front of a scenario enterance with your group if you wanted to do scenarios - just the idea of it makes me want to scream quit wasting my ********** time

Oh, and stop using abbervation abbervation instead of addendum abbervation, it triggers me so

Pick up a singleplayer game or a FPS (CoD might suit you just fine), solve your problem ~ alternatively read a scientific paper on gamedesign or basic psychology (it is no **** rocketscience), it doesn't matter what angle it approaches these aspects from, all lead to the same conclusion.

Abbd.: Get lost.

Abbd.:
Note:

Spoiler:

PvE centric games yield better ways of establishing and enforcing timesink and alike ~
You can cut out other players from your perception as they are essentially reduced to NPCs in PvE scenarios anyways.
These big publishers and developers don't give a **** about community development at all, moreso they influence player perception and expectations.
Mute and cattle-esque players, embracing the 'I-want-I-get' attitude = good costumers. Why? If you are up in arms with others you can't properly achieve momentum as a community to influence a publisher's/developer's handling of things; introducing toxic competition and reckless behaviour masks the actual problems with a game (e.g.: players are either effectively discouraged from raising criticism alltogether, or pushed towards emotional outbursts so they discredit themselves from the get go [environment dictates action and percrption], continuing the vicious cycle of unsocial cifclejerks).
TLDR: They sacrifice longterm stability and 'fun', for 'shortterm'* money and leeway.

*Before you object to that, I wouldn't consider WoW's deployment of measures as reasonable, let alone respondible - the **** they and others have introduced will have an incredible negative impact (for gamers, moreso than for this cashgrabbing industry) on gamer generations to come. One would think that the people in this industry once valueed gaming (as part of their life, getting them through shite times or allowing them to find long-lasting international friendships) and their principles...

TLDR: Handling it this very way is profitable... for <some> time. You already can, and will even moreso in future, observe the attitudes established in games to carry over into RL, as new generations are almost entirely raised by media and games. Go figure how this kind of mutist circlejerk plays out in RL - it is the moment culture and society crumbles away.

[Elemint]

Do explain your point, or post links to those articles

[lilsabin]

so , u poeple want us to come to MMOs to socialise , guys it is a game , not a chat room , plz tell me you are not serious . The only time we should talk is to coordinate things and still... as a tank , a healer or a dps , you know your role ( ROLEplaying game) ... i am tired of telling people what button they should press in what situation and how to position themselves . WE play games to relax ( escape the usual life things for a bit) ... and you want me to log in a video game to SOCIALISE with people ? guys com on , we socialise enough on FORUMS .
And for your information , a lot of people MUTE WHOLE TEAM IN MOBA AND DONT SAY **** .
As i said before , i am not anti social , but i dont think an MMO is where i NEED to go to socialise.

[lilsabin]

Spoiler:

So much this. If MMOs and other games are played like singleplayer games, **** will invetiably hit the fan. See for example 'hard-implemented', completly automated lfg-tools in WoW.... they pretty much killed the community with that, the only thing that keeps player around is the time-sink and a variety of other measures - certainly not the mutist or otherwise toxic playerbase.
Another example would be GW2's or ESO's snowflakey swiss-knife approach... see how their PvP in general, but especially their RvR turned out.

Abbd.: Especially PvP centric games that revolve around groups are made or broken by their community. See live's pug-copalypse and it's impact on game design after the fact - it coerced Mythic to make bad things worse, as the feedback they've gotten was garbage-tier. Garbage-tier feedback + garbage devs, backers and managing = terrible things happening.

Why the **** do so many people complain about Dungeon Finder is beyond me to comprehend. "It killed the sense of community!" - no, it killed the pointless time waste that was looking for a group for an hour, waiting until everyone comes to the instance, looking for a replacement for the guy that got bored with the 1h long wait, going in and then praying to every god from every lore that people won't disappear if a wipe happens. All DF did was make action flow faster by removing all the tedium. I'm not a 16 year old anymore, i don't have all **** day mate. If you wanted socialisation, there were still guilds, there were still global chats, and nothing stopped you from trying incite people for an instance trough LFG. Imagine if you had to stand in front of a scenario enterance with your group if you wanted to do scenarios - just the idea of it makes me want to scream quit wasting my ********** time

Oh, and stop using abbervation abbervation instead of addendum abbervation, it triggers me so

Dial it back - Torque

^ TRUE AS ****

[Darosh]

Spoiler:

Do explain your point, or post links to those articles

Make an effort to educate yourself ~ at best before you throw temper tantrums, hint: personal perception is worth nothing, i.e.: make a point worth discussing.

I told him to dial it back, take notice as well. - Torque

[Darosh]

My apologies for giving in to it. I didn't mean to completly discard anyone's opinion, rather the tone they are presented in.

It is fair to say however, that while some things workout well in regards to personal interests - and much rather economic interests -, the way the longterm development of this industry and its costumers is skewed in a worrisome way.

[Elemint]

Make an effort to educate yourself ~ at best before you throw temper tantrums, hint: personal perception is worth nothing, i.e.: make a point worth discussing.

I did. I specifically asked for any source that supports the claim that LFG had a horrendeous impact on the social atmosphere. You haven't even provided personal perception.

As for the tone of the post you really rub me the wrong way matie