Scenario Rework

[Telther]

I am not really surprised to see these suggestions from someone who always play in a premade in scs. Delaying the surrender vote + Pugs getting destroyed in the scenario cannot stay in respawn longer than 1min they have to get out and get farmed at least 7 min by this said premade. Horrible selfish suggestion to drive away more from the game. /clap

This

[lemao]

I am not really surprised to see these suggestions from someone who always play in a premade in scs. Delaying the surrender vote + Pugs getting destroyed in the scenario cannot stay in respawn longer than 1min they have to get out and get farmed at least 7 min by this said premade. Horrible selfish suggestion to drive away more from the game. /clap

If you would be able to read you should understand that this helps any kind of player, even pugs.

[Scottx125]

If you would be able to read you should understand that this helps any kind of player, even pugs.

Explain to me how this:

4. Remove discordant scenario - with how its currently abused by premades stacks sneaking up in as bunch of duos with timed q it no longer serves its purpose and with functioning matchmaking it doesnt have any reason to exist anymore either. Standard balanced scenarios for all will suffice.

Helps solo queuers and people who don't want to join premade SC's?

[Gravord]

Gravord, I don't say this lightly. But, freaking great thoughts and solutions. Thank you for this, I support this wholeheartedly.

Thanks

Disagree with point 4, simply put a limit on the number of people from the same guild who can join the same match. Discordant is one of the few great changes made to SC's. While removing it would free up the pool and solve the problem of people trying to get multiple duo's into the same match. You then have the problem of solos going against premades, which isn't fair IMO. There should be a solo queue, and a grouped queue which solos can go into if they want.

Wouldnt work, they swap to guildless status or fake alt guilds. Theres no possible solution to ppl cheating system to stack up, so only way is to remove reason for pretending not to be a team. Separate solo q would only slow down games for everyone, while improving team play should be goal of every player.

I am not really surprised to see these suggestions from someone who always play in a premade in scs. Delaying the surrender vote + Pugs getting destroyed in the scenario cannot stay in respawn longer than 1min they have to get out and get farmed at least 7 min by this said premade. Horrible selfish suggestion to drive away more from the game. /clap

Im sorry you werent able to understand my whole proposal

Id say that 1, 2, 3 and 5 would benefit the overall fun. Not so sure about 4 and 6.

Think about people that are mostly playing in premades. What would happen if devs would follow all his suggestions and change it like he said?
-> Without discordant mode premades would get more standard SC pops - more meat for them.
-> Without discordant and some kind of pug group building by the SC system they would have more enemies that would try to fight back. That's more fun for the premades players but they would still stomp you most of the time - you would lose the discordant option to evade premades and would be forced to queue up against them.
-> You can't surrender that fast? Great, for hardcore farming premades - you want to get out? Nope...

Be careful with your wishes. These 2/2/2 premades would gain much more with these changes then small group or pug players.

Discordant mode is still the best for solos and duos, even if it is being abused by some duo groups or guilds. Changes of winning are still better than vs 2/2/2 premades.

Having done some analysis with the SC killboard data and from own experience, I'd say less preformed groups in SC equals to less stomping happening equals to more fun for everybody.
I'd actually not remove discordant but make it full pug because of that reason. Yes, you would lose the ability to queue up with your buddy but you would gain more even matches that usually result in more fun. You don't wanna lose that? Fine, queue standard then. It's up to you then.

Discordant with some kind of group forming by the SC manager (at least 1 tank and 1 healer per 6 people), no duos and the ability queue for the event scenario or event tasks that are not exclusive to the event SC would be perfect.

Premades farm pugs right now, daily, its not fun. Im proposing solution that will create fair matchmaking so those pugs meet more pugs and those premades run into each other more often. Its bit insane to say it "help premades to farm pugs".

[Scottx125]

Disagree with point 4, simply put a limit on the number of people from the same guild who can join the same match. Discordant is one of the few great changes made to SC's. While removing it would free up the pool and solve the problem of people trying to get multiple duo's into the same match. You then have the problem of solos going against premades, which isn't fair IMO. There should be a solo queue, and a grouped queue which solos can go into if they want.

Wouldnt work, they swap to guildless status or fake alt guilds. Theres no possible solution to ppl cheating system to stack up, so only way is to remove reason for pretending not to be a team. Separate solo q would only slow down games for everyone, while improving team play should be goal of every player.

I agree duo should be removed and it should be purely solo q. That would solve the issue. And I also agree with promoting team play. I don't agree with forcing solo players who might not have time to group or whatever into potentially facing Destro or Order 6 man premades. Doesn't matter if the game is balanced 2/2/2. A 6 man of solo's vs a 6 man of guildies, most of the time means the solo's are going to lose.

I'd argue the removal of duos would actually speed solo q pops, because the match maker would no longer have to deal with having to always keep 2 people together limiting the match making.

What you are suggesting, and It's crystal clear. Is the removal of discordant to fuel your want for more pops for 6 man premades. In short, more farm. Not only that, locking them into the game for 7 minutes, with barriers to prevent any retreat once outside of the spawn. Your idea of fair is "Give them a 2/2/2 requirement before firing the SC". Your approach to this is completely wrong imo, you would be forcing people to form premades or get farmed in SC's. Which is bad MMO design, forcing players to do anything is a recipe to make them hate something. You incentivise and reward players for grouping together. Not getting farmed isn't a reward, getting bonus renown the more people are in a group(like the devs did recently) is.

The system for the most part is fine as it is, obviously the match maker could use tweaking to improve the composition of SCs. Discordant should be solo only. But solo and premades should be kept at arms length from each other. If you want to incentivise more people to do grouped SCs, come up with ways to reward players grouping up in SC's. A quick example off the top of my head, increase the rewards for doing grouped content.

[squiggastolemybike]

One-sided stomps can end before the losing team can even start a vote if the winning team had captured flags for example.
I don't think anyone spams scenarios just to get 3 crests through a surrender vote, people do fight most of the time when the conditions are playable - i.e. some tanks and healers are present and they aren't pepes that haven't discovered armor potions yet.
Discordant Skirmish is not a training ground for newbs but a lazy casino, which, however, is often exploited by various beta males joining in duos with their overgeared characters to look important in the killboard.
Ideally, there should be a 'join random sc' button that would have weekend scenarios in the list with a high chance to occur and then you have two options:
'join solo' where at least 1 healer 1 tank per group (but not more than 2 of each) would be required for scenario to start and 'join as a party' where all the duos, trios, sixes etc. are piled up (with no more than one six man per side in a 12v12 SC allowed).

[agemennon675]

Gravord, I don't say this lightly. But, freaking great thoughts and solutions. Thank you for this, I support this wholeheartedly.

Thanks

Disagree with point 4, simply put a limit on the number of people from the same guild who can join the same match. Discordant is one of the few great changes made to SC's. While removing it would free up the pool and solve the problem of people trying to get multiple duo's into the same match. You then have the problem of solos going against premades, which isn't fair IMO. There should be a solo queue, and a grouped queue which solos can go into if they want.

Wouldnt work, they swap to guildless status or fake alt guilds. Theres no possible solution to ppl cheating system to stack up, so only way is to remove reason for pretending not to be a team. Separate solo q would only slow down games for everyone, while improving team play should be goal of every player.

I am not really surprised to see these suggestions from someone who always play in a premade in scs. Delaying the surrender vote + Pugs getting destroyed in the scenario cannot stay in respawn longer than 1min they have to get out and get farmed at least 7 min by this said premade. Horrible selfish suggestion to drive away more from the game. /clap

Im sorry you werent able to understand my whole proposal

Id say that 1, 2, 3 and 5 would benefit the overall fun. Not so sure about 4 and 6.

Think about people that are mostly playing in premades. What would happen if devs would follow all his suggestions and change it like he said?
-> Without discordant mode premades would get more standard SC pops - more meat for them.
-> Without discordant and some kind of pug group building by the SC system they would have more enemies that would try to fight back. That's more fun for the premades players but they would still stomp you most of the time - you would lose the discordant option to evade premades and would be forced to queue up against them.
-> You can't surrender that fast? Great, for hardcore farming premades - you want to get out? Nope...

Be careful with your wishes. These 2/2/2 premades would gain much more with these changes then small group or pug players.

Discordant mode is still the best for solos and duos, even if it is being abused by some duo groups or guilds. Changes of winning are still better than vs 2/2/2 premades.

Having done some analysis with the SC killboard data and from own experience, I'd say less preformed groups in SC equals to less stomping happening equals to more fun for everybody.
I'd actually not remove discordant but make it full pug because of that reason. Yes, you would lose the ability to queue up with your buddy but you would gain more even matches that usually result in more fun. You don't wanna lose that? Fine, queue standard then. It's up to you then.

Discordant with some kind of group forming by the SC manager (at least 1 tank and 1 healer per 6 people), no duos and the ability queue for the event scenario or event tasks that are not exclusive to the event SC would be perfect.

Premades farm pugs right now, daily, its not fun. Im proposing solution that will create fair matchmaking so those pugs meet more pugs and those premades run into each other more often. Its bit insane to say it "help premades to farm pugs".

It's not hard to spot the intention that is trying to hide behind the ideas but a suggestion is always better than no suggestions.

[Sofong]

pop too low for this to work. this will only works for 2-3 hours a day, rest of the time scs will be dead.

[tazdingo]

it seems that just targeting bad actors directly would solve all issues with the current system... is there no way to track when the same 6 ppl are entering and leaving discordants at the same time together day after day?

[Gravord]

Disagree with point 4, simply put a limit on the number of people from the same guild who can join the same match. Discordant is one of the few great changes made to SC's. While removing it would free up the pool and solve the problem of people trying to get multiple duo's into the same match. You then have the problem of solos going against premades, which isn't fair IMO. There should be a solo queue, and a grouped queue which solos can go into if they want.

Wouldnt work, they swap to guildless status or fake alt guilds. Theres no possible solution to ppl cheating system to stack up, so only way is to remove reason for pretending not to be a team. Separate solo q would only slow down games for everyone, while improving team play should be goal of every player.

I agree duo should be removed and it should be purely solo q. That would solve the issue. And I also agree with promoting team play. I don't agree with forcing solo players who might not have time to group or whatever into potentially facing Destro or Order 6 man premades. Doesn't matter if the game is balanced 2/2/2. A 6 man of solo's vs a 6 man of guildies, most of the time means the solo's are going to lose.

I'd argue the removal of duos would actually speed solo q pops, because the match maker would no longer have to deal with having to always keep 2 people together limiting the match making.

What you are suggesting, and It's crystal clear. Is the removal of discordant to fuel your want for more pops for 6 man premades. In short, more farm. Not only that, locking them into the game for 7 minutes, with barriers to prevent any retreat once outside of the spawn. Your idea of fair is "Give them a 2/2/2 requirement before firing the SC". Your approach to this is completely wrong imo, you would be forcing people to form premades or get farmed in SC's. Which is bad MMO design, forcing players to do anything is a recipe to make them hate something. You incentivise and reward players for grouping together. Not getting farmed isn't a reward, getting bonus renown the more people are in a group(like the devs did recently) is.

The system for the most part is fine as it is, obviously the match maker could use tweaking to improve the composition of SCs. Discordant should be solo only. But solo and premades should be kept at arms length from each other. If you want to incentivise more people to do grouped SCs, come up with ways to reward players grouping up in SC's. A quick example off the top of my head, increase the rewards for doing grouped content.

You missing the point still. With fair matchmaking players are provided their own mini premade balanced group already by joining sc. And sure, they can form their own to try improve the results. Not sure what anyone can have against it.
Discordant have to go because RoR doesnt have 10k players to sustain splitting playerbase and any split over multiple q will only make it slower for everyone.
"What you are suggesting, and It's crystal clear. Is the removal of discordant to fuel your want for more pops for 6 man premades. In short, more farm." - really no idea how you can conclude with that from what im saying. Full premades get their pops no problem as is, they often miss out other premades of the other side and both of them get to stomp imbalanced setups of the other side, waste of time for everyone involved. If the system works as its designed, "weaker pugs" will be always matched against each other, while average and good will likely be used to fill up missing spots in groups and give them chance to improve and perhaps, crazy idea, find the team!
"But solo and premades should be kept at arms length from each other. If you want to incentivise more people to do grouped SCs" - but why? Because you have less time or dont want to put the effort game suppose to provide you safety net? Its an MMO, core concept of it is grouping and improving your group results.