Overarching balance changes

[Luth]

A 10-20 second CD on guard would be insane. Really good coordinated groups can already fake their focus on one target and burst the real target the moment the tank removes guard from it, even without a CD on guard.
Such a huge cooldown just transfers the easymode from the tank to the enemy DDs.

I'd rather see that the guardbuff is not a single buff, but has several stacks.
When the tank switches guard to another target, it gets 25% protection at the beginning with an increase of 5% per additional stack up to 50%; every second one stack is added, so that after 6 seconds it has the full 50% protection.
Stacks are lost completely on guard switch and begin to tick again on the new target ofc.
Numbers need to be balanced, could be also 20% initial protection with +10% per second for a higher impact in the moment of the switch, but faster regen to 50% etc. pp.

Guard should be balanced without weakening the base role of tanks (protection/support).

[Annaise16]

And the next time the two groups fight it is just as likely to go the other way. So it's balanced.

The balance that the random cleanse provides is between the dps applying the debuffs and the healer trying to remove them.

I saw in your earlier posts that you support the current situation where the dps is totally in control of the situation because it is so easy for them to cover the best debuffs. How is a situation where the healer has no chance to remove a meaningful debuff balanced?

You must surely understand that appealing to RNG as a method of balance is going to annoy people. For a game to be skilled, RNG must be minimized - and there's already way too much of it in the game as the system emphasises it through RNG-based avoidance mechanisms.

If something which can decide the outcome of an engagement is deliberately left to chance, that's unacceptable.

But what if RNG is the only way to provide balance?

Bloodi said that no one liked the random mechanism. But does anyone like the alternative once they understand what is happening? I can tell you that I don't like the current situation where I never have a chance of cleansing a a heal or armor debuff while playing my AM. I can see the debuffs on the toon, but there is currently no way for me to cleanse them.

If the mechanic was changed so that the healer got to choose what they cleansed, you could ask the attackers if they like always having their heal and armor debuffs cleansed as soon as they are applied. I'm pretty sure you will get a negative answer.

If you are looking for balance, the best situation might one where no one is happy but where everyone understands that the alternative situations are worse.

[Jaycub]

The game already had tons of RNG with avoidance and crit determining the outcomes of a lot of fights.

[peterthepan3]

Contrary to what people say, guard is fine as it is because it functions well, CAN be countered, DOESN'T render someone invincible (seriously this), and doesn't need to be changed in smallscale based on the observations of people who don't run in proper groups.

Seriously a case of if it ain't broke (it isn't, and I dare anyone to prove otherwise - from a competitive pov) don't fix it.

[Nameless]

most classes start with slow effect which shamans could cleanse almost 100% of the time. Make it random and you just kill the little pros that the class brings

the problem with cleases are that dok/wp got quite low cast times heals so they have the luxury to spam the hell out of their group cleanse while backline healers need to decide to heal or to cleanse cos one cleanse means that the big heal/group heal will land after 4 sec /if there is no setbacks/. Thats the biggest disbalance imo.
I would like to see increased cd on dok/wp cleanse when useing their group cleanse tactic. U are still able to gcleanse but instead 5 sec your cleanse become 10 or 15. Mindless and careless spam is just insane gamestyle that should not be promoted at all

[Jaycub]

Contrary to what people say, guard is fine as it is because it functions well, CAN be countered, DOESN'T render someone invincible (seriously this), and doesn't need to be changed in smallscale based on the observations of people who don't run in proper groups.

Seriously a case of if it ain't broke (it isn't, and I dare anyone to prove otherwise - from a competitive pov) don't fix it.

The only hard counter to guard is something only 3 classes possess, and is applicable for 30 seconds immunities, subject to block/parry from the front etc...

[peterthepan3]

30ft range? Snares? Bait out targets etc. I don't wanna come across blabla elitist but in 6v6 you will be able to kill people through guard with enough pressure/ccing healers, which goes to show it can be dealt with. Punts are the only hard counters, true, but the soft counters more than make up imo.

[Jaycub]

Never said you couldn't kill people through guard, range is why punt is the only counter... it's not like a tank is gonna get lost and out of range if they even have half a brain. Same for DPS, any minuscule amount of voice communication will alleviate all over extending into positions where they wont have guard etc...

I just think it's a bit too strong for it's lack of counterplay is all, but im someone who likes games with as low TTK as possible so mistakes are punished harshly etc...

I guess I don't care too much if anything happens to guard or not, just voicing my opinion.

[peterthepan3]

Never said you couldn't kill people through guard, range is why punt is the only counter... it's not like a tank is gonna get lost and out of range if they even have half a brain. Same for DPS, any minuscule amount of voice communication will alleviate all over extending into positions where they wont have guard etc...

I just think it's a bit too strong for it's lack of counterplay is all, but im someone who likes games with as low TTK as possible so mistakes are punished harshly etc...

I guess I don't care too much if anything happens to guard or not, just voicing my opinion.

nono that's cool man haha, good to have opinions dont get me wrong. not too bothered myself if i must be honest as I'm focusing more on the magus =p

[Haojin]

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