Sm/Bo talk only!!!!!

[Coryphaus]

On 1.49 we iz Biggs gets replaced with the defense pounce ability and grp armor buff gets put on tuffer n nails

[Azarael]

Was Crushing Advance changed to a group armor buff?

[Evildoor]

Ah, i see.

[mickeye]

SM and BO need buff in their utility department. Strong buffs/debuffs and reliable and relevant CC.

Both need change of their single target knockdown to 9pt ability in respective trees and both need tactic for long punt (see Chosen and Knight tactics). Right now BO can spec to a 'medium' knockback which is really bad and doesn't help a that much in either defensive or offensive measures. I'd also suggest that this knockack add 5s snare. If it would be a 11pt tactic in defensive tree, I think it would be ok.

That would be good start.

[Silvertusk]

After some thought ill make my points clear:

BO:
-Down ya go to 9points
-More Hardcore Tactic Right in da jibles into a long punt(instead of ridj+smh medium punt)
-Arm Breaka (mabe) mirror with Bgs same point ap drain or just buff its value
-Da Toughest Bellow grp wounds buff (not so important imo)

SM:
-Crushing wave go to 9points
-Replace Vauls Buffer with Vauls Hardcore! and make it mirror with the new More Hardcore tactic
-Sapping Strike mirror it with the new Arm breaka
-Phantom's Blade grp Shield Buff (not so important imo)

Think of it with these changes on already existing tactics can make these 2 into real tanks for grp support. Combine kd,single target long punt,big brawling (aoe snare from boss tree) and grp armour buff(wez bigger boss tree) and voila. Mirror this on Sm and all are happy.

[Joan]

Wow. I really think the Tuffer n' nails / SM equivalent group armor buff alongside the pounce and the 9pts kd would make a good start.

[Evildoor]

-Replace Vauls Buffer with Vauls Hardcore! and make it mirror with the new More Hardcore tactic

While punt will be useful, i think Vaul's Buffer is good enough tactic, so it should not be just thrown away.

[Kazekiri]

I didn't see this thread so I made a post in another one, which may have been a bit innapropriate.
only career I know well is SM so here I go.

I would expect longer duration on some abilities:
- Eagle flight 5 sec duration is too short
- Dragon's talon only lasts 4 seconds and you need to reach PERFECT balance to cast it, so short.

Maybe we could also consider a remake of the ability (dragon's talon), it hasnt been that useful even back in the days, as a 2 handed SM you would pretty much never use it, it could for example, reduce both output dmg AND heals to 80%. Well it's probably not the priority (which is having smth to bring to a party), but being able to deal with healers, bother them, may become also sort of balance considering how other tank classes can make troubles to healers.
We can bother healers with Dazzling strike, in theory, I did some tests back in the days with a friend of mine, healer, he simply didn't see any effect on his building time, like if the ability wasn't working at all, I have no idea if it's working well now on the game, I should try and test it. But regardless, dazzling strike isn't sort of a big thing we can bring when it comes to bother healers careers...

[mistgun]

I think we should at least start with these changes assp. i only see pros doing this. Yea there will always be people that whine but the reality is that none will ever be able to do anything about that. Aza you have a lot of support from the sm/Bo community. While these changes are just the beginning of will help us get started in the right direction.

Reguarding the PB buff I think it's great if we can get it to effect all party members it's just a small bubble but it will also make ppl have to target tanks as well and not just run by us going straight to the squishys and leaving us for last lol. I also agree that Eagles flight and dragon talon are to short, way to short.

[Azarael]

So what we've generally got so far being proposed, from different people:

Black Orc

- Down Ya Go to 9pts
- Arm Breaka into either a steal or a greater drain
- Tuffer 'n' Nails into a group armor buff
- Mor' Hardcore! into a long punt on R'DJ
- Da Toughest! into a group buff

Swordmaster

- Crashing Wave to 9pts
- Sapping Strike into either a steal or a greater drain
- Crushing Advance into a group armor buff
- Phantom's Blade into a group buff
- Redirected Force into a medium punt

? Dragon's Talon into an effectiveness reduction?

On Redirected Force specifically: There's an issue that we have here in that there's no obvious ability to swap with Crashing Wave. Given that T'N on BO is core, I'd suggest the possibility of setting the trees up as the following:

Crushing Advance => Crashing Wave => Redirected Force (long punt + CD increase)