[Swordmaster]Why are our tactics so bad?

[peppex91]

EA terrible is a blasphemy... but if u are looking for a deft/tank setup is a waste ind.

Calming Winds, vauls buffer and Perfect defences - Zero group benefits

If u survive your group will benefit from it, i can assure u.
No1 can't compete with chosen/kotbs static buffing; just roll 1 of them if that was your aim... Sm got nature blade (crazy ini debuff), but u need to constantly attack in order to get the max from it.

Deep incision would be at least viable as spir damage dot imo, have u already a idea about CoT changes, Aza?

[Azarael]

Point is that nobody's going to waste their **** on a Swordmaster using all defensive tactics, so having more than 2 or 3 of them is a waste of time.

Ensorcelled Agony is already a spirit damage tactic DoT on a better ability to boot, so I'd rather just kill it outright.

Centuries of Training should logically be a racial Action Point cost reducer, and that would also mean that Adept Movements, another crap tactic, could be binned.

[TenTonHammer]

Lingering intimidation is the only tactic mentioned above that is actually of any use.

-EA, PE Terrible low ticking dots. Go play a DPS class and see just how bad these are in comparison.
-Calming Winds, vauls buffer and Perfect defences - Zero group benefits, selfish suvivability tactics - grats you'll be the last to die in your group.

Play a serious 6v6 as a SM. You'll never feel so pointless

Well atleast lingering intimidation is proof that SM has atleast 1 good tactic
Now why would i compare a tank even a dps tanks output vs that of a legitimate DPS’s furthermore tactics don’t fully define utility take BG’s for example they are one of the most selfish tanks in the game but they are still considred dam good tanks
and the role that you can play in SM already has a role in 6v6 play in bomb groups

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

How about, instead of needlessly buffing the SM, we raise the skillcap of Kobs without nerfing it directly?
Pulling everything down to pug lvl cant be the solution.

[Gobtar]

If I remember correctly, Heaven's Blade was buffed supremely to be an AoE armour + resistance steal for the group. I think that's pretty insane, and it stinks like KotBS. I'd rather not see that become core on SM.

Either stealing for the group or debuffing the enemy would be what I'd advocate, but of course the group steal runs into a little problem called "armor pots" in terms of its usefulness... items killing abilities yet again.

I think you are right, the backed themselves into a corner with the knight, bringing the other bolsters in line with Nature's blade. I can see a tactic in the Hoeth tree be worth this ability. I did like the Wounds debuff / heal ability as well, more dynamic that the knights "I flop my sword around and bam you all have a wounds debuff" and brings something new to the table that already has a slight precedent with Bolstering Enchantments.

[Azarael]

I'm all ears if you think you have an answer to the ridiculous ease of playing KotBS and by extension Chosen, especially if you've got something you can do with the mechanic and the way the stat boosts it gives totally obscure some other buffs which affect the same stats.

[Gobtar]

How about, instead of needlessly buffing the SM, we raise the skillcap of Kobs without nerfing it directly?
Pulling everything down to pug lvl cant be the solution.

First off, doing this would be very difficult, and even if the auras were clickables (buffs with a CD like Get Em) the group utility of the SM is still something that is left being desired. BOs have morale tactic and AoE Snare, even the worst Destro tank (the BG) has a heal debuff, and bring some group synergy. Being Uber on a SM amounts to being the last pick for the team.

[Jaycub]

I'm all ears if you think you have an answer to the ridiculous ease of playing KotBS and by extension Chosen, especially if you've got something you can do with the mechanic and the way the stat boosts it gives totally obscure some other buffs which affect the same stats.

I posted this a while back and no one answered, it was a rough idea to make it so knight auras where something that the person actively used and was rewarded for using them at the right time and in the right combination. Maybe no one responded because it was a bad suggestion but I haven't seen any aura reworks posted really at all or that I can even remember.

As far as stat stacking, you either need to overhaul the entire system or differentiate between group and single target buffs/debuffs, or change auras to a separate buff/debuff that stacks with everything but the values would obviously have to be adjusted accordingly.

Spoiler:

If anything were possible I would like to see auras turned into something like this...

Auras are "Twisted" again on a 4 sec interval, Auras last 12 seconds. Auras now start at full strength when cast but every second lose 10% of their effectiveness down to 40% effectiveness (after 6 seconds) and stay at 40% for the remaining 6 seconds of the aura lifetime.

Auras now stack with themselves up to 2 times, so for instance you cast the resistance aura, then 4 seconds later you cast it again you know have 2 resistance auras which stack, at the time of casting it the second time you will have a 160% effectiveness resistance aura that essentially drop 20% effectiveness every second for the 1st 2 seconds then only 10% after that down to 80% at the last second... you get the idea.

The purpose of this is to promote skill based twisting, that allows a player to decide what is best to use at the right time, and rewards skillful players with increased effectiveness over just cycling through the same 3 auras as they did on live (with AHK scripts or mods because there was no skill involved). Essentially a good player on a knight/chosen who is paying attention to the overall battle and notices small details like maybe a sorc poped M2 and is ready to bomb, or a target is about to go down but is receiving a ton of healing and you need that little more burst or heal debuff on the chosen... they can actively and skillfully choose what auras to cast that would be most appropriate for those situations, and the stacking of auras mechanics allows you to be particularity strong versus say magical damage for a few seconds at the cost losing another aura during that time.

Auras could also be tweaked from their current state to fit best with this obviously.

[Sizer]

I'm all ears if you think you have an answer to the ridiculous ease of playing KotBS and by extension Chosen, especially if you've got something you can do with the mechanic and the way the stat boosts it gives totally obscure some other buffs which affect the same stats.

This has probably been mentioned before and might be too simplistic, but what about simply adjusting the values of buffs/debuffs so ST ones are more powerful than aoe ones.

Like for instance, right now the bg toughness debuff is 75 (base value), and the chosen aura is 75. So change it to the bg one being 100 and the chosen aura being 50. The chosen one would still be useful, as it buffs/debuffs and cannot be removed, but it wouldnt completely obsolete the bg one.

No-brainer first changes for SM:

- Forceful Shock's name changed to Dragon's Breath and affecting Dragon's Talon instead of Blurring Shock (st knockback tactic)
- Dampening Talon's name changed to Forceful Shock and affecting Blurring Shock instead of Dragon's Talon (block/parry reduction tactic)

You probably know more about sms than me, but I really dont like the first change. A st knockback on the class is nice but if you ran it youd have to choose between not using dragons talon or using it and giving someone a free immunity at the wrong time. You could choose not to run it, but I cant think of a situation where id ever want to.

This is just an opinion, but id rather tie lingering intimidation to dragons talon (make a 5s duration too so its in line with dragons talon) - ive always liked the idea of a crit debuff on the sm, but its so hard to use intimidating blow consistently (and im pretty sure it debuffed 25% of your targets crit, which was odd, could it change to a flat 10% even if this isnt changed?). Then if you want to keep the kd you could have forceful shock affect intimidating blow.

Dampening talon affecting blurring shock is a great move, but would it be possible to make it reduce dodge/disrupt too? Not everyone runs a melee train, so if we ran a ranged group itd be useless.

Also, just curious, is buffing eagles flight to a 10s duration possible in the early changes? Its not exactly group utility, but it would be amazing for 2h sms that want to live through guard damage without hitting that every 5s.

[gungnir08]

Point is that nobody's going to waste their **** on a Swordmaster using all defensive tactics, so having more than 2 or 3 of them is a waste of time.

Ensorcelled Agony is already a spirit damage tactic DoT on a better ability to boot, so I'd rather just kill it outright.

Centuries of Training should logically be a racial Action Point cost reducer, and that would also mean that Adept Movements, another crap tactic, could be binned.

I like that idea for Centuries of Training. You'd be addressing SM tactic diversity and the WL's AP management dilemma in one fell swoop.