Countering zerging in T2/3

[Malgaroth]

If you're going to punish the blob, punish it. The bigger the blob in an area the bigger the redux. Subtract their renown, one more face in an endless army shouldn't get their name known. Or take away from the blobs stats, "Depleted Rations" was a term I heard and enjoyed, maybe reduce resistances and wounds to favor the defenders, maybe not to an extreme amount but enough to make a defense viable.

[roadkillrobin]

No the root of the problem is multiple warbands of guilds and pugs making a unstoppeble deathstar by blobbing in one location since there is no reasons for all these warbands to be on different locations. By reducing the effectivness of the deathstar by forcing it to spread out over different location so fights gonna be 24man vs 24 man instead of 24 vs 72 gonna solve both the xrealming and the overblobbing.

what? multiple warbands blob isnt root of a problem. its another result of a problem. lets say we have 50/50 order/destro. what leads them to 70/30 etc? thats the root of it, not some crappy blob

u posted something about making BOs more important to keep siege and scale the timer with players attempting to take it. Still I do not see any way how it could solve anything when talking about 24v72 ... out of 24 players you would send 1 grp to retake BOs so it would be 18 in keep vs 72. even when whole warband of enemies would abandon the siege to retake objectives it would still be 18v48 at keep. doesnt solves anything. you are still outnumbered almost 3to1

with similar numbers it might work but actually make the keep impossible to take cuz you would need to keep your forces divided on objectives thus making yourself in disadvantage that can lead to a wipe cuz enemy would have similar or even more numbers, strong position on/behind walls + siege engines so what do you would happen? even bigger blob

so it would help only when your side is in slight disadvantage to make it easier to wipe out attackers but making huge impact on every other possible scenario.

Sending 1 group to retake a BO is way to risky in a highly populated zone even 2 groups is no garantee.
Defending side making cordinated BO strikes meaning 3 groups minimun needs to be seent from one area to another area of the map to each BO. Wich thins out the blob. And if they send entire WB it means they probobly need to sit on that BO for a long time to defend it this opens up more objectives to capure for thee other realm, in the long run it will spread out the blob if the defending side actually do their job correctly, if they just it in keep in hope of getting a defence tick nothing will change. You can use these strategies even with the current RVR system. But the timers makes so that the blob can zerg the BO and then safly go back to the keeps without much trouble.

[grumcajs]

Malgaroth u (and others) have completely missed what the RvR means eh? its not PvP.

Im tired of trying to convince some1 that WAR was always about massive scale and that you should find the root of a ploblem what leads players to play only 1 side. Punishing blob isnt the way this server should be heading. It should promote players to actually play 1 side (maybe some bonus renown for kills only depending on how long you are playing only 1 side) though we can see how aao completely failed - players rather roam the zone to gank some soloer and get 3 times the normal renown etc.

Maybe it sounds bad but everywhere the side with more numbers have the advantage over the smaller numbers and there shouldnt be any buff/debuffs to help the weaker side.

AAO 200%
enemy "blob" is attacking the keep so they would get reduced wounds etc. and what about players that get ganked 2v6 in the middle of map. they should get reduced wounds too? and gankers should get 2x rewards based on aao?

If it would be possible to recalculate aao and buff/debuff in every specific area of the map - maybe. though how it would be calculated and how often? when u manage to kill enemies in keep, should it recalculate and give you the debuff cuz u would have more numbers now?

And not to mention - try to imagine player that play only 1 side for looong time and do not ever change sides. And now he would be punished for playing his favourite character? Its easy to just pretend every person running in blob is just dirty xrealmer and no-pain-high-gain zerg surfer. Thats why I think there should be more aim to reward players who are fighting and not switching sides than to punish the realm as whole

[Tesq]

it doesn't really matter how much you split the ppl if one side have that tier 70% population it will be enough to both cap that zone and also ninja cap another one.
Thus making the split a weakness for the underpopuled side which need to fight on more fronts .
Split the zerg help if you want less ppl going togheter 100% of the time but it dosen't translate in population balance. It just hit the bigger skirmsh reachable.
I belive as i said before that we need bigger guild and those need to matter, i hardly saw a full guild log on the winning side here on ror which mean that most of ppl that xrealms are ppl with no guild or small guild/ a lot casual. Being made by singolarity rather than groups.
Make more ppl gahter in the same guild will also reduce the x realm for me. RvR need to revolve more around guild/alliance if ppl need to be stick to something to not be cut of of some content then they will join and partecipate more in the realm as conseguence.(aka limit to some degree craft materials to guild , keep claim other rvr related stuff).In the scenario 1 side have dedicated player and the other not some boost till rr60 willhelp in future to incentive ppl to join and dedicate to that side of the server.

Another problem is that the population may be split over 4 tiers, for that would be nice work with the de bolster (as it's probably going on ) to redistribuite some t4 population on t2-t3 make them matter in some way. Thus make able to balance overpopulation between 3 tiers instead 1; so unlikely all the server decide log only 1 side in all tiers the server should have a better shape and thus it would end with make t2-t3 not dead anymore.

another good point an overall reward system which allow ppl to be reward for a praag lock even if they fight in etaine thus making hit and run fights happens.

[grumcajs]

@roadkillrobin

I understand what do you mean but it still doesnt solve anything for heavily outnumbered side. you can pretty much send whole warband to check area around BO and if no enemies are seen, you let just 1 grp to take the BO for short timer and move to other BO. even when you decide the whole warband would be situated somewhere on route close to BOs so they can quickly react and just zerg the defenders and recap a BO. sure you can then send another grp to strike 2 BOs a once but again - it would just even more weaken your forces in keep.

For equal numbers it would drive players out of trying to take a keep and just wc-wc smash each other.

Dont get me wrong. Im actually fan of the idea to make BOs actually very important for a succesfull keep take and zone lock. But it seems to be hard to come with something that would suit all situations (equal numbers, low/medium/high aao).

[Danielle]

Fine. In the next patch, the target selector will hit the closest targets.

Yep it allows for something called 'peeling the onion' (deliberately focusing specific targets on the outskirts of a cluster by using AoE skills) a tactic used in any large scale game with aoe limits pretty much, dammit where is Sacrx when he's needed for these discussion . It should help people a tonne. Anyway glad it's being implemented next patch.

[Zanilos]

We will see.

[Vigfuss]

AoE is WB gameplay. Buffing WBs leads to what? Zerging.

We need something to spread players around the zone more than we need this.

[Gerv]

If you have a problem with the way a GM does things, pm another GM.

Edited by power abusing Ade.

[Zanilos]

AoE is WB gameplay. Buffing WBs leads to what? Zerging.

We need something to spread players around the zone more than we need this.

Half of me agrees, the other half wants to go full pan and tell you it will promote organized WB play. But I can't do either of those.

The zerging issue isn't about 1 guild WB at a time. Its a community issue where bad WBs need to stack up. When the aoe changes my money is on attackers finding it easier to break funnels. *maybe* Depending on who is doing it.