Fixing boring unbalanced scenarios

[freshour]

The fact that penril said a group won because they "PVE'd the flags" really proves every point I have tried to make about people who only Q 6 mans, never have NOT had a Tank for their dps or a pocket healer for their sorc/bw...

You are a minority. Gotta realize that this game has more people in it than just you. I see these forum warrior live guys trying to relive their Glory days from Nam, but dude... its RoR not the game you used to play...

And you should not be an idiot and tell someone to google Zerg. The entire word in itself has to do with a mass of people mindlessly going from point A to point B doing something - in this example being an SC. It includes 6-12 people moving as a group killing everything in their path in seconds nearly completely ignoring the objective (that as stated doesn't really matter).

I think it'd be great if you got off your throne of amazingness and looked at this from a normal player perspective it'd be GREAT for the purpose of conversation and productivity. But I don't want to impose on you oh great master of pugstomping.

[Penril]

You want to alleviate Spawn camping? Simple.

If the flags/artifact/whatever has not been captured after a few minutes, the team with less kills automatically wins the SC. This will force the team with more kills to actually cap a few flags/hold the artifact and not just spawn camp.

There, problem solved.

[th3gatekeeper]

4) Even if more points are awarded for defending nodes, a good 6-man will still stomp unbalanced groups. What makes you think a group of pugs will be able to coordinate better than a group in Teamspeak? I see it all the time in Nordenwatch, when a premade gets tired of "PvE monkeys" (that's how my group calls them ) and simply patrols between 2 flags.

I'm quoting myself because i think this is very important and something that everyone should realize.

It doesn't matter if nodes are given more importance. It doesn't matter if the SC doesn't start until everyone is in. It doesn't matter if the devs make a bazillion changes trying to bring balance to the SCs. In the end, the balanced premade in Teamspeak will still stomp the pugs. Understand this, and realize that the only way to achieve this "balance" you all dream of is to form a coordinated premade of your own.


That, or wait for the solo-only SC.

And maybe you havnt read all of my posts - and I dont blame you since there are many in the last few pages. I NEVER EVER ONCE said that this will make unbalanced groups viable against 6 mans.... Not once. So I dont get where this is coming from.

If nodes are given more importance AND SCs dont start until everyone is inside it WILL improve the gameplay though.

There is a reason that you hardly see any "node defense" and I think that fact alone is EXTREMELY obvious that not enough weight is put on them. Players run around in group(s), cap, then leave to the next one. Reikland is a perfect example of this, just node zerg swapping 24/7.

Noone is saying any changes will make PUGs > PMs or that this will even diminish the value of a 6 man with TS etc... In fact it will actually FURTHER the diversity when you put even more value on communication when you require defense. Communication becomes the "meta" over setting up /assist trains.

Point being, in a game that more heavily favors defense you will create scenarios where PUGs can zerg and get kills which give them reason to leave spawn. If you keep it as is, even if a PUG team re-zergs back, capping a node thats not defended. The victory is so short lived and the "gain" was so small it becomes meaningless that it was completed.


Even if you made kills award ZERO points for the win, you would still see this, in fact, maybe even MORE kill farming. So the point needs to be not to remove kill points but award "opportunity" for players to net big points.

Dont award "cap swapping". Award a team who takes and HOLDS 1 flag.

Will they die to a premade? Probably.... But will they leave spawn if they feel they have a chance at earning points? Yup.

Right now you get 3 capped and there is no point. Or you 3 cap them, they sit in spawn. If you required defense, it ALLEVIATES that a little bit. NOt completely but a little.

I think my POV has been said here many times over, so ill just leave it at this and let others have the last words.

[Penril]

The fact that penril said a group won because they "PVE'd the flags" really proves every point I have tried to make about people who only Q 6 mans, never have NOT had a Tank for their dps or a pocket healer for their sorc/bw...

You are a minority. Gotta realize that this game has more people in it than just you. I see these forum warrior live guys trying to relive their Glory days from Nam, but dude... its RoR not the game you used to play...

And you should not be an idiot and tell someone to google Zerg. The entire word in itself has to do with a mass of people mindlessly going from point A to point B doing something - in this example being an SC. It includes 6-12 people moving as a group killing everything in their path in seconds nearly completely ignoring the objective (that as stated doesn't really matter).

I think it'd be great if you got off your throne of amazingness and looked at this from a normal player perspective it'd be GREAT for the purpose of conversation and productivity. But I don't want to impose on you oh great master of pugstomping.

Zerging means overwhelming your enemies with sheer numbers. Do you know what a zerg rush is?

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Zerg

People running together from one flag to the other in a SC are not zerging: they are being smart by staying together, possibly coordinating in Teamspeak as well.

I solo as much as i premade. Actually, i solo more than several of you (who mentioned you enjoy playing in duos and 3-man groups). I solo-solo.

Anyway, since your only arguments now are "get off your throne of amazingness", i think my work in this thread is done. Unless people post more silly suggestions, of course.

[th3gatekeeper]

FYI Penril:

"A zerg is a large, loosely organized group of players with the goal of completing a task or series of tasks."

So I wouldnt say being "loosely organized" as "being smart". Zerg doesn mean "force" it means you basically "shotgun" it. Its not a "sniper fire" or a coordinated assault, its just "send X group of X things to do X" without much more than that.

Yes - I know what a zerg rush is

So people running from 1 flag to another, loosely organized, in a "large" group WOULD be deemed a zerg.

FWIW.

[Penril]

FYI Penril:

"A zerg is a large, loosely organized group of players with the goal of completing a task or series of tasks."

So I wouldnt say being "loosely organized" as "being smart". Zerg doesn mean "force" it means you basically "shotgun" it. Its not a "sniper fire" or a coordinated assault, its just "send X group of X things to do X" without much more than that.

Yes - I know what a zerg rush is

So people running from 1 flag to another, loosely organized, in a "large" group WOULD be deemed a zerg.

FWIW.

Meh, if you guys don't know what a zerg is, that's ok. You can keep calling a 6-man a zerg. I guess it isn't that important anyway (well, it kinda is to me, i hate it when people use words in the wrong way, just like when people say "x-realmer" without knowing what x-realming means... oh well) and i don't want to derail this thread.

[bloodi]

If we are sticking to the original definitions, is not a zerg rush unless is related to a "6 pool" tactic and is only a zerg when its an alien species composed of Zerglings, Hydralisk, Mutalisks, scourge and Ultralisks directed by the Overmind and/or the Queen of Blades.

Words evolve and every blob that goes around destroying anything in its path without much thought is a zerg.

[Penril]

If we are sticking to the original definitions, is not a zerg rush unless is related to a "6 pool" tactic and is only a zerg when its an alien species composed of Zerglings, Hydralisk, Mutalisks, scourge and Ultralisks directed by the Overmind and/or the Queen of Blades.

Words evolve and every blob that goes around destroying anything in its path without much thought is a zerg.

Do you consider a 6-man in a SC a zerg?

[bloodi]

Do you consider a 6-man in a SC a zerg?

If they are not doing anything but dropping aoe on idiots who are less than them, they can be categorized as that, yes.

The point is that you understand perfectly what they mean when they say people are "zerging", arguing about the numbers needed to be categorized as zerg is just... who the **** cares?

[Penril]

Do you consider a 6-man in a SC a zerg?

If they are not doing anything but dropping aoe on idiots who are less than them, they can be categorized as that, yes.

The point is that you understand perfectly what they mean when they say people are "zerging", arguing about the numbers needed to be categorized as zerg is just... who the **** cares?

They are not less than them in a SC. Which is why i mentioned that there is no zerging in SCENARIOS. Unless you split from your group and try to be a solo hero. In this case, you probably deserve to be stomped by the other 12 guys.

And i care, because they keep saying that premades only "zerg" in SCs. If they coordinated in a group of their own, or stayed with their groups, they wouldn't get "zerged" in any SC (by definition it would be impossible).