Melee bombing

[tazdingo]

What is really broken in this game is the amount of times you are getting pulled by maras and choppas while order has not really working pull at all.

half of order are engineers, but none of them are stupid enough to spec pull because the other half are SWs

[Parallell86]

So now we should nerf choppa pull even more because order r.dps can't turn and run in time. If you let me closer than 60 feet its on you.

In the middle of nowhere you are right.
But if there is any kind of objective the SW has to be around...

Well they are ranged no?

[NSKaneda]

[wonshot]

I'll try to keep realm balance out of this, and just keep my comment on:

[Meleerange aoe]
So both casters & physical damagedealers have their close range either frontal or 360 pbaoes.
The biggest difference naturally being that casters will fight against disrupt checks, hold the line stacks, but have the advantage of being mitgated by resistances and not armor values.

One thing on RoR that I personally feel have pushed the melee meta forward is the mix of Bellow from M3-M2 and morale bombing getting nerfed.
The combined effort is simply that burst M2 classes dont have the same explosiveness, and more steady aoe plus mobility is now getting more prefered.
Example: A BW with 1200 M2 drop is still potent, but when you cant rely on M2 drop blowing up the tankline anymore then its much better to have a mobile phyical archtype with mobility and snarebreakers to move around the frontline.

[Archtypes]
Casters dont have mobility tools apart from Focusmind M2. If you are playing melee bombing build on a caster, you are most of the time picking the offensive Morale drop over the utility morale.
Where as the physical damagedealers have their mobility burst from Charge, a snarebreaker, and some classes have pull or even a pounce. On top of this mobility advantage over the casters, all psyical Channeled closerange abilities (Retribution, Get to the choppa, Big bouncing, Bring it on, Whirling Axe, Wrecking Ball.) Can be channeled while moving around, which is really huge for keeping the criticalmass where it needs to be.

only really the slayer and choppa dont have an M2 drop, but apart from that most of the mdps classes also hold an offensive M2 dump they had contribute to the criticalmass, pushing casters behind on both mobility and morale-bombing burst when you have to pick your warband compesition.

Sorc & BW used to be the top pick for when you wanted damagedealers. But last few years of gear plus ror changes have made other classes with more mobility, sustainability, utility, cc and less drawbacks, simply takeover with close to same damage output and are better all around picks.

HTL "logic" changes didnt do anything against unorganized ranged zergs it only hurt the immobile closerage casters, and we still see SW warbands showcase exactly how mobility, utility and damge is a better solution than a bunch of 1.5k armored clothies standing in 30feet danger trying to channel annihilate or Disastrouse Cascade

Slightly related note:
During the last 3 GvG 24v24 fights ive seen. There has been óne Caster. And from what i heard in the evaluation that team would not run a caster again next round. Makes you wonder.

[tvbrowntown]

"melee bombing" ? maybe you meant "melee meta" ??

I agree, Slayers and WL shouild be tunned down.

And BHA made comparable to SH counterpart viewtopic.php?f=15&t=45415#p484392

" Having 4+ stacks of x3 BHA is fkn unreal broken and unbelievable it's been like this for a while.

You've taken what I've said and attributed it to Cultist. I said this. What needs to be understood is that all my def stats don't mean **** if the guy next to me takes a face full of BHA with the BHA cancer tactic active - which is the new norm. I'm getting this crap with my shield tank, purely specced to block and disrupt, en masse. **** this melee blob nonsense. Order range blobs but destro don't complain about the blob - we actually look for the root of the problems, consider whether it is working in a fair way, then make our complaints if they stand up to reason.

It's WAR - you'll lose, you'll win - it won't be balanced if you only win.

[tvbrowntown]

So now we should nerf choppa pull even more because order r.dps can't turn and run in time. If you let me closer than 60 feet its on you.

In the middle of nowhere you are right.
But if there is any kind of objective the SW has to be around...

No, let your tank hold the BO and get 60 ft or more out of the way. If you don't have a tank then why are you there?

[Earthcake]

So now we should nerf choppa pull even more because order r.dps can't turn and run in time. If you let me closer than 60 feet its on you.

In the middle of nowhere you are right.
But if there is any kind of objective the SW has to be around...

No, let your tank hold the BO and get 60 ft or more out of the way. If you don't have a tank then why are you there?

You do know that organised warband stay together right ? And hate "snaking".
MAYBE they are right and staying together is the better way to play the game.

Or we could all follow your logic, every destro DPS wait in the ramps during fort, only go up when it's time to enter lord room so they cannot receive any BHA...

[NSKaneda]

Or we can all agree that Order and Destro were designed to play differently and cancel each other out, that's why 1:1 mirroring is going against the game itself.

Melee cancels range. CC cancels melee. Kiting cancels CC. Range cancels kiting.
You will always die to something. People will come up with new tactics and those will be cancelled by new (or revived) strategems.

On a side note: both destro and order melee blobs are deadly effective in my experience (on both giving and receiving end). My two coins (for the Raven God).

[BeautfulToad]

If the argument is about choppa pull, you need to frame this in the old choppa versus slayer debate. Choppa has pull and Slayer has rampage, that's the trade-off. The mara pull is a soft mirror to the WL pounce.

In my opinion, the amount of cc in game right now kind of limits the melee trains a fair bit, getting rid of pulls and pounces would be a step back. Though I do think wonshot is correct in his analysis of melee versus ranged, though dont get the point about casters.

They still tend to do very well in damage output in t4 SCs, and are usually only worse than a well-equipped choppa/slayer. BWs/Magus/Sorc (and SH/Engi to a lesser extent) are important for their damage type - specifically they are expert magic damage dealers, and need resistances which noone ever stacks, unlike armor.

[Asherdoom]

you guys realize devs give no care about posts like these right?