So, this happened is a scenario the other day...

[GodlessCrom]

Anyone care to chime in on how an Engineer healing more than two different Shamans isn't OP? Something is definitely broken with the keg...

Funny the Squigh Herder which has been nerfed-fixed 4 or 5 times already, is doing less damage than the enginer with defensive build, and the enginer still can do 200k heals, and beat the Shaman healers.

So we have now enginers which heal better than healers, do more damage in defensive form than range damage dealers, and i am pretty sure if we could quantify the amount of dodge-disrupt and damage mitigated with theyr 4k+ armour and theyr 32% dodge-damage buff, they will be better tanks than the tanks too.

PD: (Squigh herder need a damage boost in the abilities, for the damage amount lost from diferent pet fixes and range nerf, and the lacking of magical-corporeal damage in theyr abilities, test yourself if you wanna see how much damage are doing DoT abilities in people)

Lol dude, where did the Engis touch you?

[CegeePegee]

Ok, fair point about keg range in scs. But what about in keep sieges? When Order defends all they have to do is have as many engies as possible drop their heal keg in the lord room or on the 3rd floor and it suddenly becomes quite difficult indeed for Destro to kill much of anything, as seen in DW last week. I wouldn't have anything to say about it if Destro had some kind of similar tool at our disposal - or am I missing something? I don't want to see nerfs for nerfing's sake but for real if only Order gets this type of benefit I just don't see how that isn't unfair.

[Telen]

The slayers died quite alot so it didnt keep guarded mdps up. The tanks though with their low damage and self healing tells me they were just staying in the keg. Question is why the shaman were doing such crappy healing then. Id expect to be doing more than that in full dps spec in that kind of sc. Were the knights shattering heals? The keg healing doesnt tell you the whole story. Ive been in many scs with mulk and hes a very good player but I will out dps and out heal him as you just cant heal or dps like a dps healer in tinkerer.

[wargrimnir]

Funny the Squigh Herder which has been nerfed-fixed 4 or 5 times already, is doing less damage than the enginer with defensive build, and the enginer still can do 200k heals, and beat the Shaman healers.

So we have now enginers which heal better than healers, do more damage in defensive form than range damage dealers, and i am pretty sure if we could quantify the amount of dodge-disrupt and damage mitigated with theyr 4k+ armour and theyr 32% dodge-damage buff, they will be better tanks than the tanks too.

PD: (Squigh herder need a damage boost in the abilities, for the damage amount lost from diferent pet fixes and range nerf, and the lacking of magical-corporeal damage in theyr abilities, test yourself if you wanna see how much damage are doing DoT abilities in people)

Looks like a late entry, SH only has 2 deaths. Scale his damage up with the sorc who has 6 deaths. I can easily get in the top 5 damage with my SH who is R37 currently. Damage doesn't mean much.
Context is important, scen scoreboards are terrible metrics to use.

Engi did the least damage for RDPS on their team by a large margin. Next highest RDPS did 40% more damage. That's the trade-off when you go deep into tinkerer. What seems likely is that he was way in the back, perhaps a flame turret, spamming keg and occasionally getting some damage in. Note both slayers were on the frontline, and both SW's took 1 death each. Engi did not, so the points spent to get keg were wasted. Keg is short range spec, and no short range abilities were likely used.

As to whether Engi actually outhealed is unknown, the list is sorted by damage. The lowest damage dealers are usually the dedicated healers, so they would be missing from the list. Just another instance where scoreboards are misleading, and cherrypicked at times, or just totally lacking in the context needed to make an assessment.

[Grunbag]

This is really rare to see such heal from engineer (never saw it before) , like someone showed a dok that did 600k+ heal in a sc .
I think destro has been really dominate in that sc , engineer was alone to heal and everyone was packed near engineer (IB probably gave buff to engineer to heal better)
I see a lot of rdps that did way more damage than engineer in that sc (magus ,SW), squig herder probably bad play or was focus too much for have so low damage stats .

[blaqwar]

Howling Gorge is a scenario where the fighting of two equally matched groups (which it was, the score was decently close) will be very centralised. The Engineer likely sat near the powder barrel spamming his keg and rarely being focused (0 deaths) and since his heals are an area of effect he was healing his whole bunched up team. Couple that with the fact that there is a low damage sorc (possibly spamming AoE) and 2 Magi on the opposing team and it's very likely the fluff healing he was doing was topping off people damaged by dots/weak AoE.

If you guys want to remove a very mediocre AoE healing ability that doesn't scale and will only get weaker as the server gets developed then be my guest. I mean it's only useful in PuGs because it's complete garbage against people being focused and heavy AoE damage (large scale ORvR).

It's not like you'll listen to reason, people with no perspective have sought out the wrong target to unleash their rage on for most of the human history. Usually to their own demise (a bland game).

PS: Conveniently the Order healers have been left out. This screenshot pretty much proves everything. Also; nerf Squig Herders...

[jorgemarco]

1. Saying engineer is best healer than healer classes is ridiculous.
2. keg only can heal that ammount assuming that enemy team just did fluffy dmg.
3. to do nice ammount of heal all the ppl must be stationary on the same spot nearly full sc, cause tics of keg heal are 290-300. so dont imagine things that are not real.

[Thayli]

My problem with keg is that it's yet another tool in the Engineer's toolkit to build his "tiny island of annoyance", that lacks any form of counterplay. Engineers camping out on top of hard to reach terrain, hiding inside their turrets, next to a keg that heals out of group. Is it broken? In terms of raw numbers, probably not. Is it incredibly frustrating to play against? Yes. Please notice the distinction between frustrating and broken.

I'm not asking for a mirror, which makes no sense. All I want is that this asymmetry is acknowledged (which it now is on the previous page), and that possibly a means of counterplay (i.e. make it targetable) is introduced. I still don't know why a ranged DPS got this free heal-out-of-group card to begin with.

[Lektroluv]

Funny the Squigh Herder which has been nerfed-fixed 4 or 5 times already, is doing less damage than the enginer with defensive build, and the enginer still can do 200k heals, and beat the Shaman healers.

So we have now enginers which heal better than healers, do more damage in defensive form than range damage dealers, and i am pretty sure if we could quantify the amount of dodge-disrupt and damage mitigated with theyr 4k+ armour and theyr 32% dodge-damage buff, they will be better tanks than the tanks too.

PD: (Squigh herder need a damage boost in the abilities, for the damage amount lost from diferent pet fixes and range nerf, and the lacking of magical-corporeal damage in theyr abilities, test yourself if you wanna see how much damage are doing DoT abilities in people)

Looks like a late entry, SH only has 2 deaths. Scale his damage up with the sorc who has 6 deaths. I can easily get in the top 5 damage with my SH who is R37 currently. Damage doesn't mean much.
Context is important, scen scoreboards are terrible metrics to use.

Engi did the least damage for RDPS on their team by a large margin. Next highest RDPS did 40% more damage. That's the trade-off when you go deep into tinkerer. What seems likely is that he was way in the back, perhaps a flame turret, spamming keg and occasionally getting some damage in. Note both slayers were on the frontline, and both SW's took 1 death each. Engi did not, so the points spent to get keg were wasted. Keg is short range spec, and no short range abilities were likely used.

As to whether Engi actually outhealed is unknown, the list is sorted by damage. The lowest damage dealers are usually the dedicated healers, so they would be missing from the list. Just another instance where scoreboards are misleading, and cherrypicked at times, or just totally lacking in the context needed to make an assessment.

If you have a SH lvl 37, you must be agree the Squigh herder damage is a too low damage output right now, just a kill shot stealer with many pathetic hits in low amount of time and which lose all damage each time he face somebody with a minimal amount of armour, or theyr disturbing dependance of moral 2 for make any type of minimaly decent burst.
I have one 40 and 65 renow, and i know it is not an equipment, stats or lack of renow points problem... and since the pet nerf and fixes, the influence of the class in scenarios is low or none.

[wargrimnir]

If you have a SH lvl 37, you must be agree the Squigh herder damage is a too low damage output right now, just a kill shot stealer with many pathetic hits in low amount of time and which lose all damage each time he face somebody with a minimal amount of armour, or theyr disturbing dependance of moral 2 for make any type of minimaly decent burst.
I have one 40 and 65 renow, and i know it is not an equipment, stats or lack of renow points problem... and since the pet nerf and fixes, the influence of the class in scenarios is low or none.

I don't agree with your premise. Squig is not a burst dps class. They only had that option because pets were broken.
WE, WH, WL, BW, Sorc <- proper burst classes. You die in a rotation.

SH is a mobile ranged pet class, which means you kite and grind people down. The WL is your counterpart to mobile dps, but because they're melee, they're allowed to do burst. SH shouldn't, they have the luxury of playing smart and staying safe while dealing damage. Could they use some buffs? Some, probably. But I see quite a few good squigs that have learned how to play and make Order cry about OP squigs as well.