[Split] Marauder discussion

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Coryphaus
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Re: [Split] Marauder discussion

Post#311 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:55 am

Xaun wrote:Is defensive pounce for BO/SM an possible future option then? (copy/rework of wings of heaven)? Perhaps with a small radius aoe KB or KD upon landing, but on a 30 or longer cooldown, bcoz Pounce with no CD is cray-cray right?

I always thought that this proposed change was a good option for BO and SM and making them more relevant in the group meta
With the change to their respective KD’s being 9 pts, they don’t need the whole defensive pounce option thing anymore atleast on blorc

Because blorc is now close in power to BG, all it needs is a few small buffs, specifically waaagh! and da greenest and its grp utility in the boss tree and a super punt on some sort

SM still needs significant buffs if it ever to compete with ib
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Xaun
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Re: [Split] Marauder discussion

Post#312 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:25 am

You're missing the point, the defensive pounce is the important part, and an anti cc (punt) ability that only SM and BO would have

Perhaps tie their existing AoE KB to this ability (as opposed to a new KB or KD)

Anyway, the question was more as to whether it was implementable or not

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Jaycub
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Re: [Split] Marauder discussion

Post#313 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:37 am

Giving them defensive pounce would make them the best guards in the game, for 99% of people that won't matter I guess.

Don't really need more anti CC things in the game when you get 30+ seconds of immunity for just about anything.

It's also a buff to order since they can RKD the BO before he cant jump back into gaurd range, destro doesn't have that luxury.

Isn't one of the biggest obstacles for these classes how buff stacking works in the game?
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Uchoo
Posts: 547

Re: [Split] Marauder discussion

Post#314 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:53 am

Jaycub wrote:Giving them defensive pounce would make them the best guards in the game, for 99% of people that won't matter I guess.

Don't really need more anti CC things in the game when you get 30+ seconds of immunity for just about anything.

It's also a buff to order since they can RKD the BO before he cant jump back into gaurd range, destro doesn't have that luxury.

Isn't one of the biggest obstacles for these classes how buff stacking works in the game?
I thought the biggest obstacle was the sheer lack of utility compared to other tanks and a restrictive mechanic that didn't feel rewarding in any way.

With a Chosen, if you want parry chance, hit Suppression, it lasts 10s. Swordmaster, build to Improved Balance and use Eagle's Flight, which lasts 5 seconds.

Your next global needs to slow something? With a chosen, hit Dizzying Blow. Swordmaster, build to Improved Balance, ignoring Perfect Balance, then the global after that can slow something.

With the Black Orc at least, your first ability in the rotation debuffs armor, so you don't need to use Improved Balance to debuff. Swordmasters have most of their best stuff locked in Improved Balance, which really sucks.

Are there any old Swordmasters/Blorc that can detail the same eloquent and quite logical posts from Warhammer Alliance back in the day?

As for buff stacking, Nature's Blade at 15 points at 40 is 120 stat points iirc, it will supercede any buff besides a liniment (160 stat points), so that was never an issue on my Swordmaster, I don't know how others felt.


Defensive pounce? Why not. That sounds really cool, refreshing, and fun. Games need things like that to keep players interested and the meta shifting. If they changed nothing else, they would still be the worst choice for a group in sheer utility, but they would be the best guardbots. That sounds like a fair trade-off.

The wounds buff? Probably a great idea. Swordmasters and Blorcs have a few ways to heal their group already, a tank that could directly supplement the group's health would be nice, especially in solo queue scenarios without any role checks while queuing (fantastic idea by the way, Jaycub). Would it be too strong in a group? I don't know, let's try and test it, it sounds awesome.
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Coryphaus
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Re: [Split] Marauder discussion

Post#315 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:20 am

Defensive pounce on bloc replaced we iz bigger in the boss tree on pts during live that means that grp armor buff would have to be changed to tuffer n nails I don't know how it would work on sm though

But flaws in grp utility can be addressed eaiser than throwing in potential gimmicks

For blorcs

Make rock ard also affect their defensive target
Make da greenest buff every resist type on proc and also perhaps stack with other resists buff sources

Remove move speed penalty from can't hit me

Mor hardcore should affect only Right in da jibbilies but make it a super punt


Let you missed me proc on block or parry and make WAAAGH! better and worth the 13 pts
Last edited by Coryphaus on Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Jaycub
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Re: [Split] Marauder discussion

Post#316 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:23 am

It's just that a defensive pounce is a buff to gaurd on SM/BO, and it favors order more becuase they have RKD and can feasibly stop a BO from getting back to his gaurdee via defensive pounce (for at least ~3 seconds).

Being able to use it midair might make that point moot, but depending on the range you would have to have some pretty damn good reflexes to get it off I would think.

Punt is the only counter to guard atm, aside from terrible positioning/dives from your enemies.
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Uchoo
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Re: [Split] Marauder discussion

Post#317 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:34 am

Personally I like the idea, and giving destro a ranged knockdown or 2 might be nice if that issue arises.

Honestly, this game was balanced so poorly that I think it would have to go through some pretty serious (and perhaps laughable) balance phases to hit it just right.

I mean Warrior Priest and DoK complained about each other for so long, now they are perfectly mirrored in their healing tree and well mirrored in the other 2 trees, do you hear them complaining anymore? Do you hear anyone saying how boring they because they are mirrored?
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Gerv
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Re: [Split] Marauder discussion

Post#318 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:24 am

32 pages, this is epic
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Boyd - WP - O.S.

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Greatwarden
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Re: [Split] Marauder discussion

Post#319 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:44 am

Uchoo wrote:Personally I like the idea, and giving destro a ranged knockdown or 2 might be nice if that issue arises.

Honestly, this game was balanced so poorly that I think it would have to go through some pretty serious (and perhaps laughable) balance phases to hit it just right.
Is a ranged knockdown really that different from a ranged stagger when we're talking about stopping a tank from running back from a punt or a healer from healing?

Regarding the balance phases, I think it would be huge missed opportunity if stupid mistakes WEREN'T made during alpha testing. There will never be a better chance to mess up with minimal consequences.



Finally: an alternative to a defensive pounce would be a defensive PULL... Mind you, while the tested defensive pounce in OldHammer worked for all friendly targets, a defensive pull should probably be restricted to group-only.

Bretin
Posts: 929

Re: [Split] Marauder discussion

Post#320 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:00 am

Jaycub wrote:Punt is the only counter to guard atm, aside from terrible positioning/dives from your enemies.
Punt is overrated when it comes to 6vs6 and we want to balance around that, right?
http://www.twitch.tv/stenchypow/v/19596237

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