A System to Handle Balance Suggestions (Checks and Balances)

[Tesq]

Check 3 (Class Leads, 1 for each class) (One "expert" for each of the classes to represent their interests)

popcorn, we need a lot of popcorn for when these ppl will be decided.

[Coryphaus]

I nominate Tesq as the one and only class lead we need

No one else understands the nuances and complications of how classes are truly cross mirrored in this game

[wos]

and Tesq can do the numbers to he's good at the numbers
+1 vote tesq lol

[Ungrin]

You're killin me with this non-bias thing.

It's not necessarily 6v6, but 'balancing around the 6 man" because so many mechanics are based or only work within a group.

The zerg is made up of 6 man groups, SC's are based around two 6 man groups. The only thing that isn't is small scale roaming and soloing, which cannot be the focus of a tab targeting combat game like this, class choice and spec will always trump skill in this game.

Class choice will never trump skill in this game. It's really hard for me to think of any way to explain this to you than to offering my own experience. I'm sure many of you have seen where the enemy has a better composition and you win. Or your team might have the better combination and you still lose. That might be more large scale that what you had in mind. But in an actual 6v6 its still possible. When Eternal Citadel was up my guild did 100+ scenarios, every premade on badlands was on there trying to farm for weapons. We lost 4 games. We played with whoever was online and we didn't have 1 marauder or choppa in the guild. Our composition looked like witch elf dok shaman chosen black guard squig herder and we ran into a ton of double slayer double wp iron breaker/knight. We did not punt to win either.

Who were you on live again?

[Nameless]

i cant get why ppl think double of anything at 6v6 level is considering good. They way to hinder your group is bring 2 of a same class. For wb v wb is different story

[backrow]

not two of the same class, two of the same archetype.

[Xvim]

mythic done similar thing (actually exacly the same...) and we see what they accomplished.

A big problem is that some of those who were making balance changes were unaware of what the consequences were. For example, I would say that the biggest break in balance was around the time of split Sov sets and equalized stats (even though it sounded good to both the community and devs).

The reason I say this is due to almost all ability scaling by class (DoT duration, AoE, and Cast Times being exceptions) were on the base ability effect, not the full ability effect. What does this mean?

If a melee dps does a hit for 200 base and a DoK hits for 75%, they start at 150 damage. When you got up to hitting for 1200 on the melee dps, the DoK is hitting for 1150 (about 96% of the damage) assuming same stats / weapon dps. **This does not include tactic effects etc for simplicity.

Not to mention things like Maras with the same stats as a choppa means they hit for almost as much damage on abilities before they factor in the debuffs built into their abilities.

Prior to this, the stat differences on the sets were the counter to DoK / Mara damage (and DoK healing) output. Again going to DoK (as I played a fair bit of it), heal crit cap went from 17% to 51% (with Doom proc). ***Not including LotD BS that I would consider the other massive break.

Therefore, the first step would be going into all of the abilities for each class and fixing co-efficients. And that's just for the base issues.

[Nameless]

mythic done similar thing (actually exacly the same...) and we see what they accomplished.

A big problem is that some of those who were making balance changes were unaware of what the consequences were. For example, I would say that the biggest break in balance was around the time of split Sov sets and equalized stats (even though it sounded good to both the community and devs).

The reason I say this is due to almost all ability scaling by class (DoT duration, AoE, and Cast Times being exceptions) were on the base ability effect, not the full ability effect. What does this mean?

If a melee dps does a hit for 200 base and a DoK hits for 75%, they start at 150 damage. When you got up to hitting for 1200 on the melee dps, the DoK is hitting for 1150 (about 96% of the damage) assuming same stats / weapon dps. **This does not include tactic effects etc for simplicity.

Not to mention things like Maras with the same stats as a choppa means they hit for almost as much damage on abilities before they factor in the debuffs built into their abilities.

Prior to this, the stat differences on the sets were the counter to DoK / Mara damage (and DoK healing) output. Again going to DoK (as I played a fair bit of it), heal crit cap went from 17% to 51% (with Doom proc). ***Not including LotD BS that I would consider the other massive break.

Therefore, the first step would be going into all of the abilities for each class and fixing co-efficients. And that's just for the base issues.

yep they tried somehow to balance the game with the new gear and new renown abilities but they just made a bigger problem that cant be fixed. The balance went totaly one sided toward certain classes. Not to mention that the amount of armor thanks to the new gear went tru the roof and allowd only few of all phys dps classes to prosper rest like SH fall back even more. The balance at rr 80 pre new rr80+ gear were much better. Back there we still got some problems but at rr100 the problems got much more complex and the game eventually died

[vorod]

absolutely do not need this, many of the games "balance issues" can't be addressed until T4. Some classes are more powerful than others in T1, T2, T3 but trying to tweak for that is not a good thing. it's a free game, if you're repeatedly getting pwned, it might not be a balance issue but rather a player one. More importantly, you're not wasting money either so enjoy the ride.

[Penril]

absolutely do not need this, many of the games "balance issues" can't be addressed until T4. Some classes are more powerful than others in T1, T2, T3 but trying to tweak for that is not a good thing. it's a free game, if you're repeatedly getting pwned, it might not be a balance issue but rather a player one. More importantly, you're not wasting money either so enjoy the ride.

Why not? There are some serious balance issues in the lower tiers. For example let's take a look at tanks (I have leveled all the tanks to lvl 26 except for the KotBS; im working on it atm. I found out that order gets several of their toys way earlier than destro. The difference between BGs and IBs is the worst:



IBs get their KD at level 6. BGs get theirs TEN levels later (16).
IBs get their superpunt earlier than level 20, yet BGs get theirs at 25.

Besides that, only order tanks have access to AoE snares (BG gets theirs at 29 and BO at 35).

Keep in mind this comparison is only for tanks (maybe someone will go ahead and do something similar for other archetypes). You have other disparities, like SWs getting their heal debuff at 21 while SHs get theirs at 25.

Why does order need to have an advantage in the lower tiers? And what destro player, in their right mind, would want to stay in the lower tiers for long? This is exactly the reason why i killed gors in IC on my BG until level 25 (for the superpunt).

TL;DR: Make leveling faster so we can all get to the "balanced" max level ASAP. That, or just fix realm balance even at lower tiers.