A System to Handle Balance Suggestions (Checks and Balances)

[Azuzu]

I can't trust some "class leads" and some "experts". That kind of bureaucracy absolutely not needed.

The idea behind class leads and a group of " expect" for lack of a better word. Is simply to provide the devs with more tools to give them a clearer landscape to help make informed decisions.

I don't think our devs are simple minded fools who will just listen to horrible and obviously bad ideas. I just want to help provide them with a better system then the one we have right now. I find the system right now to be very disorganized. It breaks down to people arguing, most times not constructively, on the forums.

Only issue I see is getting a balance change through all of those checks...

I completely understand this concern. I think it would be fine tho, because the devs would still be able to make quickly changes when they feel they need to. Ultimately they have full control, the others will just help give them different view points.

[Noiree]

Check 3 (Class Leads, 1 for each class) (One "expert" for each of the classes to represent their interests)

No. Absolutely no. Just try to ask the community who's the best at whatever class on this server and you'll see the reason why this will definitely fail.

[Coryphaus]

But how would we decide who said experts are? A community vote?

Half people with accs on ror don't even post on the fourms or are just silent lurkers

I mean granted their are defiantly people on these fourms whose opinions I would defiantly defer to over mine like penril and tklees but I still don't think this whole "experts" idea would be so clear cut

[Azuzu]

Check 3 (Class Leads, 1 for each class) (One "expert" for each of the classes to represent their interests)

No. Absolutely no. Just try to ask the community who's the best at whatever class on this server and you'll see the reason why this will definitely fail.

I don't think being "best" at the class is what would qualify you. It would simply be a popularity contest.

I think what a lead should posses, is the ability to articulate their ideas well, be open minded, have a good understanding of their class and others. Show they aren't bias and manipulative, just trying to make their class overpowered.

They would read and discuss with the general community and core balance group, keeping themselves informed. They would then help articulate to the devs what their take on the class is.

But how would we decide who said experts are? A community vote?

Half people with accs on ror don't even post on the fourms or are just silent lurkers

I mean granted their are defiantly people on these fourms whose opinions I would defiantly defer to over mine like penril and tklees but I still don't think this whole "experts" idea would be so clear cut

Application, just like any other role on the project.

The devs would pick the group they want to work with. This isn't a popularity contest. The community would still have a major voice in the conversation.

[Jaycub]

There is so many hidden mechanics and weird bullshit in this game you can play for over 1k hours and still have no idea how **** works, and I fall into that category. There just isn't good documentation of an effort to bring things to light via a wiki or whatever.

The only person I trust making balance decisions is Azarael, because the work he does on this server/emu is deeply on that level, and he seems to have an answer for everything you could think of asking about abilities/classes and how they interact etc...

I just wouldn't trust elevating the status of a select group of non-dev/coding people for their opinions to be headed over others. They are going to have agendas too, the devs at least have a stake in making their baby as good as possible for everyone, not just themselves.

[Azarael]

I'm not sure what qualifies me to make balance decisions, though.

I merely write code. Sure, I know broadly how the emulator handles, and quite finely when it comes to the combat and ability system, but that doesn't translate in any way towards understanding the game on a player's level - knowing what is viable, why it's viable and what should be changed to best benefit a class. That comes with experience playing the game at a solid level.

The best I can give you is common sense, advice on how to go about the balancing process and an assurance that crap suggestions won't be listened to. It's up to you guys to work out what needs to be done.

[Azuzu]

I'm not sure what qualifies me to make balance decisions, though.

I merely write code. Sure, I know broadly how the emulator handles, and quite finely when it comes to the combat and ability system, but that doesn't translate in any way towards understanding the game on a player's level - knowing what is viable, why it's viable and what should be changed to best benefit a class.

The best I can give you is common sense, advice on how to go about the balancing process and an assurance that crap suggestions won't be listened to. It's up to you guys to work out what needs to be done.

It rests on your guys shoulders, because it's your baby.

I'd just like to give you a good support system to make your job easier.

Right now the format we have is QQ posts, hostile forum warriors fighting and occasional insights.

Most topics don't even stay on topic past page 1 to really spark real debate.

I think a core group and team leads who all had to apply and follow stricker posting and discuss guidelines would be helpful and complement the general population posts.

[bloodi]

It's up to you guys to work out what needs to be done.

Well, we are ****.

[Azarael]

Well, put it this way:

When the time comes for us to make a serious attempt at balancing this game, we'll be putting a structure in place for doing things properly. It will follow these lines, because that was my intention anyway. I know people will have all sorts of different ideas for the game, and rather than sit in indecision theorycrafting about these, I believe the best way to deal with them is to try all of them out and let the flaws, if any, speak for themselves.

The threads on the discussion forum at the moment are mostly for people to blow off steam and lay some groundwork for the future.

[Azuzu]

Well, put it this way:

When the time comes for us to make a serious attempt at balancing this game, we'll be putting a structure in place for doing things properly. It will follow these lines, because that was my intention anyway. I know people will have all sorts of different ideas for the game, and rather than sit in indecision theorycrafting about these, I believe the best way to deal with them is to try all of them out and let the flaws, if any, speak for themselves.

The threads on the discussion forum at the moment are mostly for people to blow off steam and lay some groundwork for the future.

That's what I'd expect. It makes the most sense and is a well balanced and sensible way to go about things.

I continue to be impressed with the RoR team. ^_^ This is what happens when those who actually play the game help develop it.