[Split] Marauder discussion

[Xaun]

I would say this, whilst i feel that some of these abilities need mirroring, I would posit that the end game meta would benefit from some of the knights group benefits being passed to the SM

As an overarching intention (for both Destro and Order) I think the game would benefit (in terms of increased lifespan and longevity and varied fun overall) from less cookie cutter fotm group builds and more of a rock/paper/scissors feel where one build can best another but be vulnerable to something else.

Where you can play the classes you want and still find a group build that is competitive at the end game (i don't believe this is feasible to do at every tier interval up until end game, so the focus should be on end game)

[Chsuan]

Nerf Maras/Slayers/KotBs/WP/Dok.

Buff SM/BO/Magus/Engi/Shaman/AM/Wl.

/thread

+

[magter3001]

I assume that this thread is talking about all classes in T4 with RR100 and Warp/Doom gear. It's T2 right now, with a cap at level 26... T3 is delayed and T4 doesn't seem to be on the horizon.

I must admit that I feel a little dirty even replying to this thread and helping it grow. A month ago everyone was complaining about AoE BWs but most people didn't know that those BWs abused bugs to get their damage so high. Now people complain about Marauders when some of their bugged abilities at launch were already fixed here on RoR.

Instead of crying for a nerf, how about ask for a buff for other classes? Though I must admit that some abilities do need a nerf (or get moved to another tree) for both Marauders and Slayers, I also realize that it will not be enough. Certain classes need buffs, that's a fact but it's dangerous to buff classes with say increased damage. I would rather see a class get either a mirror ability or to swap abilities with another class in the same realm. For example, SH should not have Slayer's SL mirror. What Mythic dev thought that was a good idea is a ****head. Give some abilities from Mara to Choppas and give some tactics of KotBS to SM. That will balance some things out for sure and will be a nice buff to certain classes while still keeping the realm, Order or Destruction, with the same abilities.

[Jaycub]

Just out of curiosity: how is Mara survivability and Slayer *something* in any way linked? Are the two classes spiritual twins that you can't effect one without needing to effect the other?

The ultimate goal of balance in this game would mean that all DPS become "viable" in some sense. But as it stands right now any serious/competitive guild isn't going to run a group without a slayer x2 or mara+chop. Thankfully this game isn't super competitive and you don't run into many of these meta milker groups, but still when you talk about game balance you have to think about high level play and the most OP group comps.

I can't say whether or not never getting any kind of real competitive environment on live was a good or bad thing, it certainly would of meant that they game would of had to been actually balanced, but I'm sure the team from live would of **** it up royally.


I still think the biggest problems balance wise are just core game mechanics like how buffs/debuffs stack (or rather don't stack at all), things like healing in general, and guard. Bad play gets rewarded too much in this game, and the TTK is almost worse than WoW when you are doing premade vs premade (if they are running evenly matched compositions and have similar levels of communication (VOIP)).

I know everyone here hates GW2, but in that MMO for example with no healers every mistake you made hurt you. Here with how strong certain core game mechanics are you get away with some pretty stupid **** quite often and really takes away any individual skill from the game, and makes it pretty much just a "how strong of a group can we make" type of deal which leads to things like the huge disparity between premades and PUGs. In a game that doesn't reward bad play PUGs have at least have a chance against proper premades, but in a game like this there is literally no hope at all.

Because of that... all balance changes made to a single class in this game effect everyone, especially those on your same realm that have the same archetype. For instance if you buffed WL and didnt touch slayer/WH that's pretty much an indirect nerf to both slayer and WH, and probably every RDPS on order as well.

There is no really powerful skills in this game either, something that really defines a class. DPS pretty much just do what their name states... DPS. You arent losing something really good/important by not bring a certain class into your group, becuase of how easilly most everything can be covered by a full group. For instance you don't really gain much by swapping out a slayer for a WH in a 2 slayer group.

[Coryphaus]

You gain excommunication that can instantly pretty much win you a 6 v 6 in you can get it off, run an am with moral pump to get your wh to m4

[Jaycub]

I was actually thinking of that but

>morale 4

That seems super gimmicky and you are losing something for it as well. That also means the AM is just pumping ST heals on you. Realistically how fast can you get pumped up to M4? This also means you have to run an AM in the first place :^)

[Greatwarden]

Just out of curiosity: how is Mara survivability and Slayer *something* in any way linked? Are the two classes spiritual twins that you can't effect one without needing to effect the other?

It's called "Realm balance".

Both are mDPS
Both are OP and better than the other mDPS in their realms

Another option would be to leave Mara/Slayers alone, and just buff Choppas/WLs (and maybe WHs/WEs?). But this would reduce TTK even more. It is simply easier to just ask for Mara/Slayer nerfs.

What we can all agree though is that Magus needs some serious nerfs.

I think I get where you're coming from but why does realm balance have to be in one big step where EVERYTHING gets fixed in a giant mega-patch, rather than making many single, sensible changes?

Consider it this way: imagine if someone said, "Mara survivability will get adjusted, but ONLY IF: Slayer AOE is weakened, BO/SM bellows and stances, Chosen and KotBS staggers, the combustion/dhar mechanic and AM and SH healing and mobility are adjusted at at the same time."

It doesn't make sense to take a change that sounds fairly reasonable and then add a whole bunch of unrelated qualifiers that would only serve to delay the change.

Unlike in OldWAR, when you'd be lucky to get a patch every 6 months, the devs here respond much faster with smaller changes. Bundling up a bunch of changes to unrelated classes for vaguely defined 'real balance' reasons just complicates things needlessly.

[Bretin]

mrd is balanced vote 4 close

[Coryphaus]

mrd is balanced vote 4 close

grt argument m8 much proof

i rate 8/8

[Dajciekrwi]

1) All these discusion miss one thing ; Warhammer NEVER was a "Lone Hero" game, so the mirrors theory in WAR are at best questionable. If you will think in type "Maras is op and Wl not" you go to blind circle, because party relations beetwens classes "nerfed" and "buffed' can make incalculable effects. So buff/nerf next calsses and again again....
For example- reroll Mara and try to kill Dvalin or Ory or Osman slayers in sc , good luck.

2) With all Respect forall Order players - for me SW who shot me for 2k from wall might be OP, BW can be OP, Engi can be Op, Its all depends from experience,territory of fightand most of COOPERATION of players in team.

3) So WE ALL should have a respect for your enemies,some humility about own skills, and stop obssesion about " Mara is invincible and immortal, otherwise y play him incorectly".

4) For last , lest say i can be a worstes Marauder in ROR , but i still have fun ) And that is essential for this project isnt it?