Giantslayer, Great Axe Slayer

[Coryphaus]

yeah... not excatly

ive seen things go differently and rage is not something that takes long to build up again, toughness stacking wps are very durable and most party's are running 2 slayers so its not huge a dmg drop


Also.....being drop rage while disarmed is not an ok mechanic in my book

[tr400ex]

Im talking about from the fact that pretty much all slayers use/used Rampage into ID with undefended attacks and each attack created more procs and was powerful in both zergs and ST and id wasnt clenseable on live even though mythic said that they would make it clenseable

Hence because of undefendable attacks slayers dont need to spec powered through

First off mythic never said they would make it cleansable they said working as intended.You are waaay off base again just like in most of the posts you make why don't you just play order if you think its so great.

[Ungrin]

Im talking about from the fact that pretty much all slayers use/used Rampage into ID with undefended attacks and each attack created more procs and was powerful in both zergs and ST and id wasnt clenseable on live even though mythic said that they would make it clenseable

It wasn't cleansable but you could literally right click ID off. At the end of live they had created an addon that most destro used to instantly remove ID once it was applied.. automatically.

Took them long enough, but i was not around for that

ID will be a moot point once we are high enough level to use it. That along with them nerfing shatter limbs will make the slayer pretty much unplayable. People will bitch and moan about every class until everything is nerfed into the ground and nothing dies.

Lol unplayable? more like a bit more balanced Ordo never ran anything else in their 6 mans but 2 slayers b/c of how strong the class was and cause 100% uptime on shatter limbs, with shatter limbs nerf to have higher cd then 2h slayer will be more viable

I don't see order crying out that maras need to be nerfed.. but considering the vocal minority on the forums seem to call for nerfs to order classes but noone is screaming about destro classes I find it kind of interesting. There are clearly some classes that will need fine-tuning once we hit t4.

i see people mention that maras need nerfing all the time

These changes need to be done in priority based on how well the class is functioning without said nerfs/buffs:

Magus / Engi - need major buffs Magus does not need buff the class just hasnt gotten its strong abilites and tactics yet
BO / SM - need buffs yes
Zealot / RP - need small buffs no both classes are fine
WL - needs a buff / Mara - needs a slight nerf Yes and yes but wl needs be be reworked with tree orgainization and stuff but once that is all done pounce needs to be nerfed
AM / Sham - slight buff not really
Dok / WP - Keep same yes
Slayer - slight buff to 2h / Choppa - needs buff to aoe tree slayer 2h tree is good imho but is over shadowed by AoE tree
BW / Sorc - No change yes
Ch / KoTBS - maybe put back 9s stagger or no change 9s stagger was game breaking, i also dislike runefang as i feel it is too good a tactic on a class that is all ready very strong/good
SW / SH - No change yes

responses in bold

This is all in regards to t4 btw..

This is how it was in live. I'm sorry you weren't around for it but ID became useless and everyone pretty much migrated off the slayer leaving entire zones full of WH's and SW's. The slayer is a good DPS but only if he is allowed to fulfill his role as one. Once you start nerfing ID and SL you take the TTK from a reasonable amount of time to really long to the point of order not being able to kill anything.

Our groups always consisted of the following:

1 KoTBS
1 Ironbreaker
1 Slayer
1 WH / WL
2 WP or 1 WP / 1 RP

Sure slayers were better DPS most of the time but they weren't invincible. A mara could easily pull one and smash him into the ground if the slayer was at full rage before the slayer could do anything about it.

Mara's are the swiss army knife of classes. Self heals, Armor pens, 50% crit multiplier.. you name it.. it's got it.

Magus and Engis both need buffs. They were useless on live.

Zealot / RP need buffs because of their survivability. I've seen them literally killed in off the Knockdown.

WL pounce 100% does not need a nerf. The WL pounce is one of the few things that made the class unique.

Slayer's 2h tree needs a buff because like it was mentioned earlier, power through has to be run because our exhaustive attacks take our rage out to 0. Wounds debuff / Spellbreaker / Deathblow all bring our DPS way below dual wield because of this. Power through HAS to be taken.

AM / Sham definitely need a slight buff in terms of healing and survivability for AM. AM does not get a run away tactic.

As for the KoTBS / Chosen's 9s stagger being game-breaking.. no.. it certainly was not. The TTK was taken way down because of the 90/100 gear but in sov the 9s was perfectly fine.

As for runefang being OP... no. It really isn't considering the horrible damage that KoTBS does without it. If you take away the runefang of KoTBS than you have to take away something equally as good from the chosen. Seems to me that since you main destro that all you see is the good stuff order has and completely ignore the great stuff that destro has.

[Coryphaus]

I always felt pull as a whole was a terrible mechanic

Yes mara is strong, yes mara needs nerfs

Engi was weak b/c of late game armor stacking, magus was not weak late game of that i assure you

Healers need the rest of their team to look out for them, if their getting blown up in a single kd b/c the rest of your grp is doing nothing thatsthen they are at fault

Im not sure i under stand what your saying about the 2h tree needing buffs, as i dont see anything wrong if powered through has to be taken, Wot Rules? is basically mandatory on choppa

I get where your comming from about AM not having RA but their balanced to each other in that Shams are better healers and AMs are better DPS, granted that no one takes AMs for dps late game but none the less thats how it is, also im sms get buffed to be viable second tanks in grps the will pare well with ams due to spirit debuff

When i played a 9s stagger more or less insured that your team is ccd long enough for them to focus and kill your healer(s), 3s is too short to be effective espically with sms, engies, blorcs, madus and stuff giving out immunites like candy but still

Youve seen how wls use pounce, they can jump on top of keeps and attack targets, they jump in and if things go south they can jump out, it gives a level of mobility that i feel that no mdps should have, we let it slide cause wl is a bad class but if they get looked at, get chaged and get buffed then i feel pounce should get looked at


Kotbs already give 20% grp crit and 15% grp healing, thats pretty dam good espicably considering that you take kotbs much like chosen for the auras not really the dmg and furthermore destro has nothing similar, i think runefang needs to moved into a tactic on the conquest tree

The only thing chosen has as good is destined for victory and yes that ability is really strong and im fine with that getting looked at


I dont main destro I have an IB, slayer, Kotbs and SM of varying levels

[Ungrin]

I always felt pull as a whole was a terrible mechanic

Yes mara is strong, yes mara needs nerfs

Engi was weak b/c of late game armor stacking, magus was not weak late game of that i assure you.

Healers need the rest of their team to look out for them, if their getting blown up in a single kd b/c the rest of your grp is doing nothing thatsthen they are at fault

Im not sure i under stand what your saying about the 2h tree needing buffs, as i dont see anything wrong if powered through has to be taken, Wot Rules? is basically mandatory on choppa

I get where your comming from about AM not having RA but their balanced to each other in that Shams are better healers and AMs are better DPS, granted that no one takes AMs for dps late game but none the less thats how it is, also im sms get buffed to be viable second tanks in grps the will pare well with ams due to spirit debuff

When i played a 9s stagger more or less insured that your team is ccd long enough for them to focus and kill your healer(s), 3s is too short to be effective espically with sms, engies, blorcs, madus and stuff giving out immunites like candy but still

Youve seen how wls use pounce, they can jump on top of keeps and attack targets, they jump in and if things go south they can jump out, it gives a level of mobility that i feel that no mdps should have, we let it slide cause wl is a bad class but if they get looked at, get chaged and get buffed then i feel pounce should get looked at


Kotbs already give 20% grp crit and 15% grp healing, thats pretty dam good espicably considering that you take kotbs much like chosen for the auras not really the dmg and furthermore destro has nothing similar, i think runefang needs to moved into a tactic on the conquest tree

The only thing chosen has as good is destined for victory and yes that ability is really strong and im fine with that getting looked at


I dont main destro I have an IB, slayer, Kotbs and SM of varying levels

In my opinion, magus and engi were both underpowered. I never had any problems with Maguses. I was never like, " Oh ****! There's a magus! Take him out FIRST!" We always left them for last because we felt they were useless.

The point I was making about power through having to be taken is that's why the 2h tree isn't as viable as the dual wield tree. If we have to lose a tactic slot to run a tactic so that our DPS doesn't dip WAAAAAAAAAAAY below dual wield.. the tree needs a buff. It's just not viable. I would rather play a 2h tree but if I have to lose an important tactic just so I don't exhaust my rage on every strong attack then there is no point.

You have to remember that the chosen is a debuffer while the KoTBS is a buffer. Pretty much every KoTBS buff has an opposite chosen debuff.

[Hogtooth]

Slayers are ok using abilities that will drop your rage because ID builds it back up quickly. You NEED to be able to drop rage to stay alive even with guard and dedicated healer.

[Ungrin]

Slayers are ok using abilities that will drop your rage because ID builds it back up quickly. You NEED to be able to drop rage to stay alive even with guard and dedicated healer.

You can't use ID when using a 2Hander.

I'm not sure if you're able to keep up.

[Hogtooth]

I gave it the readers digest look....so my fault there on not reading the whole thread... so what tactics did you run in T4 while using 2H? I never ran a 2H on live and looking at the tactics available under Giant Slayer I would make a suggestion to rewrite the tactic "Determination" to build rage twice as fast while using a great weapon . As determination is now written, its just a junk tactic imo.

[Ungrin]

I gave it the readers digest look....so my fault there on not reading the whole thread... so what tactics did you run in T4 while using 2H? I never ran a 2H on live and looking at the tactics available under Giant Slayer I would make a suggestion to rewrite the tactic "Determination" to build rage twice as fast while using a great weapon . As determination is now written, its just a junk tactic imo.

This was the build I normally ran.

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=sla ... 3:;0:0:0:0:

[Coryphaus]

Why flanking instead of aa haste? Higher aa is one of the advantages that dw has over 2h that tactic negates this so you can proc more flames of rhuin wp prayers etc etc