A look into the WH and what skills need tweaking

[Tklees]

It applies the debuff to all targets hit. I have run dragon gun and aoe razor before in city with my old WS build and did some pretty funny damage. The aoe heal debuff was pretty strong considering I could stealth to backlines open up and debuff half the healers all while our front of slayers and bws nuked the under healed front lines. But even then its not viable under any normal circumstances.

There are three viable WH specs: EW with ptf, sod, pw, and FC tatic.
Bal with pw, FC, sod, and ptf
Bal with pw, FC, RB, and shroud

The first two being the best for top end PvP and the last being a duel/solo spec. I prefer EW as BAL can be cleansed and its a strong debuff for the people assisting me. I actually didn't run Sod alot so I could grab the m4, excommunicate, 15 secs of 100% heal debuff on target. Was usually a guaranteed kill in 6v6 or competitive sc. And watching someone run around not understanding why they weren't being healed was funny because most people did not run it.

[Toldavf]

I don't find Wh a competitive dps for group to much down time on skills to little damage.

[Jaycub]

I don't find Wh a competitive dps for group to much down time on skills to little damage.

A lot of groups on badlands would run 1 slayer 1 WH. Game is hardly competitive to really milk the meta that hard. And a complete lack of a competitive environment means we never really got to see some real data on what is, and isn't OP. And balance suffered heavily because of that. Hell there might be some sleeper OP comp that includes a SM.

We were also discussing the different types of meta that could prop up from creating that competitive atmosphere in guild a while back. For instance if you have a ranked 6v6 que that included Reikland Factory, MT, and Tor Anroc. The meta in each would be drastically different. Your faceroll group like a 2 slayer, WP-RP, Kotbs IB group would be eaten alive in an objective based SC like reikland factory against a group comp built around having say a solo player always at one of the 2 back objectives on like an AM/Engineer/SW, and bunker tank mid and people roaming, because winning means holding points not getting kills. Of course the opposite is the case in a deathball SC like MT where only kills really matter. Tor anroc opens up windows for playing around the lava, etc...

I see a lot of guilds/groups currently not even trying to win SC's because there isn't much a point. You don't lose MMR, you don't drop on a ladder. If you don't need the emblems... getting kills RR and drops etc... become more important. Thus we have the melee train meta where DPS like slayers/choppa/mara are king, bevause farming kills is all that ends up really mattering.

[Coryphaus]

I never understood the obsession with mmr in dote'r

I ranked my self as soon as I hit 12 and knew jack **** and played "low impact heros" like lich and got put at 1.5k and then I worked my way up to 1.7k and then... I just stopped caring didn't see what the big deal was so I just started playing unranked so I could do stuff like Dagon 5 Ebola demon

Granted now I'm in that stage that we all go through where I watch more competitive than I play

[Jaycub]

I never understood the obsession with mmr in dote'r

I ranked my self as soon as I hit 12 and knew jack **** and played "low impact heros" like lich and got put at 1.5k and then I worked my way up to 1.7k and then... I just stopped caring didn't see what the big deal was so I just started playing unranked so I could do stuff like Dagon 5 Ebola demon

Granted now I'm in that stage that we all go through where I watch more competitive than I play

There should be something in place to make top groups care about winning, some kind of ladder/MMR/Bracket system is all I can think of. Maybe tying SC's back into the war campaign?

Spoiler:

1.7k MMR is BELOW the trench :^)

[feefy1]

A great idea on MMR but it's something that I don't think would incentivize players to group for sc other than ax emblems.


WH, missing few tactics to make it a greater threat than it is currently. Limited to BF with FC or JE, tactics wise.

[Coryphaus]

but isnt wh really strong atm? you have your kd and 50% crit

[dkabib]

Those things you mentioned... I had a WH on live, can't remember RR, maybe 70.
I never really used those skills, they were subpar compared to others.
WH at end game is mostly Torment + Absolution spam, with the DoT exec that I forgot the name now.

[feefy1]

but isnt wh really strong atm? you have your kd and 50% crit

I didn't say they weren't strong. I did say they will be stronger once they have access to all 4 tactics.
One more tactic lets you play around with builds accordingly with the gear we have.

[Jaycub]

but isnt wh really strong atm? you have your kd and 50% crit

WH is the weakest MDPS on order atm, kd is nice... but 50% crit tactic is essentially 0.5% increased damage per 1% of crit. Without 2 knights running crit tactics it falls short until t4 when you can stack a good bit, or 1 knight can run both, SW has leading shots, etc...

The main choice that should be made by a WH atm is "does my group comp need a KD" (knight and IB both should have theirs) so in 6 mans you are probably running PTF, as its the best healdebuff order has access to.

Solo you run PW obviously

WH comes online at level 31, and becomes very solid at level 40. Compared to the FOTM classes like BW/Sorc/engineer which sort of plateau at level ~26. WH having the weakest class "mechanic" out of anyone aside from their mirror contributes to this a lot.