[PTS] Renown abilites

[guardian71]

It seems like changes get made to fix a problem generated by another change and the latest change will create a new problem that has to be fixed with another change later on. I suppose my fear is that class reworks done a while ago will need done again when it should have been finished. While nothing is perfect, a little consistency with the classes and mechanics would be nice.

Maybe gear rework will settle some stuff out for a while and more focus can be made towards other updates?

[Bankei]

I just wanted to make it easier for people to compare the current renown ability-values to the ones thats currently on the PTS, so threw together a page.



https://maartenson.net/ror_renown.html

/j

You're a credit to this community, thank you Wholdar

[Keula]

I run 849 toughness and 9090 hp currently with maxed TB and still get chunked for 60% of hp in an opener. This will kill the spec unless I drop to 800 odd int with full armour talis and 849 toughness, which is likely what I'll do.

You're overestimating the difference of what's gonna happen, especially regards to TB and in scenario where avoidances won't matter as those are the bigger things nerfed. Max old TB was only better than max FS if the opponent had higher than 60% chance to crit you, sure it gave less short termrng, which is probably a positive thing.
Now because both can't go to extremes anymore, but TB wasn't nerfed points cost wise at 30 points, still give 24%, while FS was, the threshold is now 50%, so TB is relatively even better choice.

You lose 16% crit dmg taken, but you gain 15 renown points to spend on survivability, 4 more if you had max toughness as well so with new system you can max 2 out 3, toughness, futile strikes and trivial blows and leave one of them at lvl3. Ofc can spend the extra 19 points in something else but I'd think FS is the best choice defensively. So depending on what you used before in addition to TB, the dfference is:
If you did uses FS: crit dmg taken from 60% to 76%, 3/7% less anti crit, +64/104 stats.
If you didn't use FS, and just had stats, crit dmg taken from 60% to 76%, 8% additional anti crit.
-4 random stats or -avoidance value point for both.

So, WL has... 46%E:41% crit chance(with ruby rings), right? then +15% against 200 ini, no FS no anti crit from gear, so 61% crit chance total with 95% crit dmg.
If you had lvl 3 FS before, that would be 148% dmg taken at the current TB max vs 158%/161.5% with new max TB, depending whether you'd max FS or toughness and leave the other at lvl3. And +64/104 toughness for the new spec, I have no clue how much dmg reduction that is, but if you have 800+ now, clearly it's worth something.
If maxed toughness and no FS instead, 158.3% vs 161.5% dmg with lvl 2 new FS and max toughness, again ignoring toughness but both have the +120 im this scenario. E. corrected numbers
It is more dmg taken ofc, but it's not the end of the world.

WL also loses 2% crit, but 15 points and +4 from maxed str/ws so new renown is max crit max ws or str, and lvl 3 on the other for full offense. Might gain some dmg with -2% crit +76 stats even if already soft capped str with the extra pen from ws, idk, can't be bothered to calculate that. If crit would cost 12 isntead of 10 itemisation points it would be -4% crit and everyone would be happy.

[tazdingo]

what dev is playing wl this month

[Farrul]

So, WL has... 46% crit chance(with ruby rings), right? then +15% against 200 ini, no FS no anti crit from gear, so 61% crit chance total with 95% crit dmg.
If you had lvl 3 FS before, that would be 183.2% dmg taken at the current TB max vs 196.3%,/200.5% with new max TB, depending whether you'd max FS or toughness and leave the other at lvl3. And +64/104 toughness for the new spec, I have no clue how much dmg reduction that is, but if you have 800+ now, clearly it's worth something.
If maxed toughness and no FS instead, 195.4% vs 200.5% dmg with lvl 2 new FS and max toughness, again ignoring toughness but both have the +120 im this scenario.
It is more dmg taken ofc, but it's not the end of the world.

WL also loses 2% crit, but 15 points and +4 from maxed str/ws so new renown is max crit max ws or str, and lvl 3 on the other for full offense. Might gain some dmg with -2% crit +76 stats even if already soft capped str with the extra pen from ws, idk, can't be bothered to calculate that. If crit would cost 12 isntead of 10 itemisation points it would be -4% crit and everyone would be happy.

White lion max crit in 5 sov/triu/ruby rings is currently 41% crit, after this patch it will drop by 2 and so 39%. Compare that to Magus 57-58% crit etc. (Technically WL can reach 56% crit with tactic, however that is a gimp spec in the context of solo roaming mentioned here, solo WL goes heavy guardian for Leonine Frenzy or pet is 100% useless).

So, not sure why WE/shaman players freak out about WL, if this goes live, RDPS healers and Magus, engineer etc will be the thing shredding everyone.

[nat3s]

So, WL has... 46% crit chance(with ruby rings), right? then +15% against 200 ini, no FS no anti crit from gear, so 61% crit chance total with 95% crit dmg.
If you had lvl 3 FS before, that would be 183.2% dmg taken at the current TB max vs 196.3%,/200.5% with new max TB, depending whether you'd max FS or toughness and leave the other at lvl3. And +64/104 toughness for the new spec, I have no clue how much dmg reduction that is, but if you have 800+ now, clearly it's worth something.
If maxed toughness and no FS instead, 195.4% vs 200.5% dmg with lvl 2 new FS and max toughness, again ignoring toughness but both have the +120 im this scenario.
It is more dmg taken ofc, but it's not the end of the world.

WL also loses 2% crit, but 15 points and +4 from maxed str/ws so new renown is max crit max ws or str, and lvl 3 on the other for full offense. Might gain some dmg with -2% crit +76 stats even if already soft capped str with the extra pen from ws, idk, can't be bothered to calculate that. If crit would cost 12 isntead of 10 itemisation points it would be -4% crit and everyone would be happy.

White lion max crit in 5 sov/triu/ruby rings is currently 41% crit, after this patch it will drop by 2 and so 39%. Compare that to Magus 57-58% crit etc. (Technically WL can reach 56% crit with tactic, however that is a gimp spec in the context of solo roaming mentioned here, solo WL goes heavy guardian for Leonine Frenzy or pet is 100% useless).

So, not sure why WE/shaman players freak out about WL, if this goes live, RDPS healers and Magus, engineer etc will be the thing shredding everyone.

No solo mag/sham is going glass cannon, that's not how solo builds works. They won't be shredding to anywhere near the degree WL will, but we'll see. Getting 849 toughness (my sham) or 758 toughness (my magus) means you sacrifice specifically crit chance.

[Farrul]

No solo mag/sham is going glass cannon, that's not how solo builds works. They won't be shredding to anywhere near the degree WL will, but we'll see. Getting 849 toughness (my sham) or 758 toughness (my magus) means you sacrifice specifically crit chance.

Magi is literally melting targets in seconds from 110ft. The class is seriously OP in the context of solo. Even if you sacrifice crit for more tougness you're likely on par or above a WL levels that went full crit itemization( due to the 15% tactic difference).

White lion i will admit do eat a glass WE for breakfast caught out of stealth( but a good WE dps can also kill the glass WL, from stealth)

But more importantly this solo context is a very small consideration, if everyone's defences will be lowered, the sheer amount of RDPS in the lakes at the moment will be HUGE winners.

Personally i think the patch is mistake, i do not like full def builds as a concept but this is hurting defenses in a broader general sense which imho doesn't feel its going to improve the balance in this game. But time will tell.

[Keula]

White lion max crit in 5 sov/triu/ruby rings is currently 41% crit, after this patch it will drop by 2 and so 39%. Compare that to Magus 57-58% crit etc. (Technically WL can reach 56% crit with tactic, however that is a gimp spec in the context of solo roaming mentioned here, solo WL goes heavy guardian for Leonine Frenzy or pet is 100% useless).

So, not sure why WE/shaman players freak out about WL, if this goes live, RDPS healers and Magus, engineer etc will be the thing shredding everyone.

Oh, I didn't even see that tactic, truly blind. I was just calculating Trained to threaten cause I just saw 5% crit there, but now actually reading, yea doesn't seem that good, also no primal fury then either I'm guessing over FO. So even less of change then.

But yea rdps is might be tad overtuned afterwards, cause that D&D is so pricey, I guess we'll see.

[Farrul]

Sadly i think the days of 2H tanks in the lakes will come to an end, with lowered defences across the board( Avoidances, crit ) and with the dominion of RDPS, 2h tanks will become a rare breed, i'm predicting only the 2H SM( due to Wods) will be seen a little more often.

It won't make much sense to be a shieldless tank anymore, except for premade groups and scenarios solo ques.

So yeah, i do agree this patch may for sure lead to a deterioration in build diversity, this makes me a little sad honestly. RoR may be going in a direction where players may depart from the game ( since not everyone likes to have their playstyle compromised, and told to play it differently, they may just quit instead)

I think with patch releases like these, it is important for the devs to address the situation with RDPS.

An honest question, does it really make balance sense that classes should be doing full DPS at max range?

[nat3s]

No solo mag/sham is going glass cannon, that's not how solo builds works. They won't be shredding to anywhere near the degree WL will, but we'll see. Getting 849 toughness (my sham) or 758 toughness (my magus) means you sacrifice specifically crit chance.

Magi is literally melting targets in seconds from 110ft. The class is seriously OP in the context of solo. Even if you sacrifice crit for more tougness you're likely on par or above a WL levels that went full crit itemization( due to the 15% tactic difference).

White lion i will admit do eat a glass WE for breakfast caught out of stealth( but a good WE dps can also kill the glass WL, from stealth)

But more importantly this solo context is a very small consideration, if everyone's defences will be lowered, the sheer amount of RDPS in the lakes at the moment will be HUGE winners.

Personally i think the patch is mistake, i do not like full def builds as a concept but this is hurting defenses in a broader general sense which imho doesn't feel its going to improve the balance in this game. But time will tell.

At 110 range that works great... But when you're in melee, say a WH opens on you or a slayer gets the jump from around the corner, then being glass cannon doesn't work so well. That's essentially the difference between glass cannon and def, do you want to win every match up or only select match ups?