[PTS] Patch Notes 23/07/2026 - RDPS Patch and New Scenario Mechanic

[Orontes]

minor balance issues ?

SW, Engi, Magus or whatever being stronger or weaker, in the long run isn't game breaking. Most classes are quite (up to some extent) balanced even though people cry as if they were absolutely unplayable, just because they struggle facing 1 or 2 classes 1 on 1, on a game fundamentally balanced on wb gameplay.

On Order it is standard to restrict RDPS numbers in a WB to counter the Destruction melee push. Based on the new changes, what would be the reason to take a SW into a WB over other RDPS options?

[vanbuinen77]

Cool, another 6% damage buff for physical dealers

[ronago]

minor balance issues ?

SW, Engi, Magus or whatever being stronger or weaker, in the long run isn't game breaking. Most classes are quite (up to some extent) balanced even though people cry as if they were absolutely unplayable, just because they struggle facing 1 or 2 classes 1 on 1, on a game fundamentally balanced on wb gameplay.

On Order it is standard to restrict RDPS numbers in a WB to counter the Destruction melee push. Based on the new changes, what would be the reason to take a SW into a WB over other RDPS options?

I think we should make a distinction between best option and viable option. Is SW the best ranged option after the patch? Probably not, there will be many situation where other classes will be better. Which is good, the amount of SWs in the current version clearly shows it's not a correctly balanced class.

Even if not being the best option for every situation, will SW be viable after the patch? Probably yes, just like dps shamans and AMs remain viable, even though they do not dominate the battlefield like they did 2 years ago. Will SW be a top pick for wbs? For aoe ones probably not, which is normal with other classes more catered for pure aoe (BW, choppa, WL). For wbs focusing on picking targets SW will probably remain highly relevant.

[Orontes]

SW, Engi, Magus or whatever being stronger or weaker, in the long run isn't game breaking. Most classes are quite (up to some extent) balanced even though people cry as if they were absolutely unplayable, just because they struggle facing 1 or 2 classes 1 on 1, on a game fundamentally balanced on wb gameplay.

On Order it is standard to restrict RDPS numbers in a WB to counter the Destruction melee push. Based on the new changes, what would be the reason to take a SW into a WB over other RDPS options?

I think we should make a distinction between best option and viable option. Is SW the best ranged option after the patch? Probably not, there will be many situation where other classes will be better. Which is good, the amount of SWs in the current version clearly shows it's not a correctly balanced class.

Even if not being the best option for every situation, will SW be viable after the patch? Probably yes, just like dps shamans and AMs remain viable, even though they do not dominate the battlefield like they did 2 years ago. Will SW be a top pick for wbs? For aoe ones probably not, which is normal with other classes more catered for pure aoe (BW, choppa, WL). For wbs focusing on picking targets SW will probably remain highly relevant.

A viability argument means acceptable. Your position then is the best SWs can hope for is to be acceptable. This is not desired, nor hoped for, but tolerable. What kind of WBs operate off of a tolerable position? These are simply PUGs (random WBs) that are for the mob alone. An argument that consigns SWs to the mob is not compelling.

Your view eliminates positions in competitive WBs (WBs needing specific roles). You admit SW AOE will be lacking, therefore any WB with an AOE focus won't opt for SWs. The claim WBs focused on picking targets would see SWs as highly relevant. Why would this be the case? The common SW focus is Skirmish. Skirmish is AOE. You have admitted AOE will not be a draw, so Skirmish (the heretofore most common way people have always played SWs for years and years) has been eliminated. Melee SWs are not WB suited. Even the Devs in their fervor to destroy SWs admit their Assault creature will be "high risk/reward hybrid range opportunist" and " unique and rewarding gameplay in the smaller, single-target focused, scale of combat " so Assault is not oriented to WBs and therefore out. It is irrelevant niche play. This leaves Scout that is single target, stationary to do damage, and now designed around Fester and adding dots. Is there anything a Scout SW can do a BW or Engi won't be able to do better? The answer is no.

Are there any SW mains happy with what is coming? No.

The response compares DPS SHs and DPS AMs to the new SW. That is telling. DPS SH and AM are primarily solo and duelists. They are self-sufficient. Can that argument be made for the new SWs? Your defense of the Dev driven catastrophe illustrates the issues perfectly.

I always assumed the informing model for Devs in their reworks was to make each playstyle for classes viable. The DPS options for healers would be an example. Now all healer classes that want to DPS can do it and be effective. The reworks for two-hand Slayer and Choppa also are examples of attempts to make those options appealing. Is there anything appealing in what is coming for SWs? Is there any excitement from the SWs mains? The world you paint is to be tolerated.

The most charitable interpretation of what is happening to SWs appears to be design by spread sheet which means the Devs simply do not know the class and decisions demonstrate that knowledge gap. There are darker interpretive models as well. The result is the same. The class is being severely damaged.

[rady]

- Cut Ya: Removed.

Not sure if it was mentioned and it's of low impact, but this skill is useful while leveling. No idea why it's removed.

[ronago]

On Order it is standard to restrict RDPS numbers in a WB to counter the Destruction melee push. Based on the new changes, what would be the reason to take a SW into a WB over other RDPS options?

I think we should make a distinction between best option and viable option. Is SW the best ranged option after the patch? Probably not, there will be many situation where other classes will be better. Which is good, the amount of SWs in the current version clearly shows it's not a correctly balanced class.

Even if not being the best option for every situation, will SW be viable after the patch? Probably yes, just like dps shamans and AMs remain viable, even though they do not dominate the battlefield like they did 2 years ago. Will SW be a top pick for wbs? For aoe ones probably not, which is normal with other classes more catered for pure aoe (BW, choppa, WL). For wbs focusing on picking targets SW will probably remain highly relevant.

A viability argument means acceptable. Your position then is the best SWs can hope for is to be acceptable. This is not desired, nor hoped for, but tolerable. What kind of WBs operate off of a tolerable position? These are simply PUGs (random WBs) that are for the mob alone. An argument that consigns SWs to the mob is not compelling.

Your view eliminates positions in competitive WBs (WBs needing specific roles). You admit SW AOE will be lacking, therefore any WB with an AOE focus won't opt for SWs. The claim WBs focused on picking targets would see SWs as highly relevant. Why would this be the case? The common SW focus is Skirmish. Skirmish is AOE. You have admitted AOE will not be a draw, so Skirmish (the heretofore most common way people have always played SWs for years and years) has been eliminated. Melee SWs are not WB suited. Even the Devs in their fervor to destroy SWs admit their Assault creature will be "high risk/reward hybrid range opportunist" and " unique and rewarding gameplay in the smaller, single-target focused, scale of combat " so Assault is not oriented to WBs and therefore out. It is irrelevant niche play. This leaves Scout that is single target, stationary to do damage, and now designed around Fester and adding dots. Is there anything a Scout SW can do a BW or Engi won't be able to do better? The answer is no.

Are there any SW mains happy with what is coming? No.

The response compares DPS SHs and DPS AMs to the new SW. That is telling. DPS SH and AM are primarily solo and duelists. They are self-sufficient. Can that argument be made for the new SWs? Your defense of the Dev driven catastrophe illustrates the issues perfectly.

I always assumed the informing model for Devs in their reworks was to make each playstyle for classes viable. The DPS options for healers would be an example. Now all healer classes that want to DPS can do it and be effective. The reworks for two-hand Slayer and Choppa also are examples of attempts to make those options appealing. Is there anything appealing in what is coming for SWs? Is there any excitement from the SWs mains? The world you paint is to be tolerated.

The most charitable interpretation of what is happening to SWs appears to be design by spread sheet which means the Devs simply do not know the class and decisions demonstrate that knowledge gap. There are darker interpretive models as well. The result is the same. The class is being severely damaged.

I must say I agree with what you say. In practice, the ideal would be to have all classes be able to perform in WBs, small grps, etc. Based on that, yeh, SW is probably lacking and will be with the changes made.

To give you an example, my prime pvp times were in Dark Age of Camelot, a deeply unbalanced game with what I still feel is the best purely tactical and strategical PVP gameplay we've had. Did they care to make all classes viable for every content? By no means, if you wanted to grp play, you only had a choice of half the classes available (at best). Thing is, the game really worked well. Some classes were good for grps, some were good soloers, balancing them for limited use helped the devs keep balance (somehow).

I'm not saying RoR devs should do the same, but we should maybe understand a small dev team has a limited capacity to make every class fun and viable in SCs, solo, small scale and large scale rvr. Maybe, some classes must understand they may be more catered for small scale due to lack of aoe, etc.

Back to SW, they are great (or decent, again, you can't always expect to be the top of the pyramid) in small scale pvp, even if they get some nerfs, due to the kit they have. WB play? Maybe that's lacking, especially in AOE. If you look at its counterpart, SH, it's probably way more used in WB gameplay.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to say SW is perfectly fine, I just want to say balancing gameplay is not always an easy job. And people jumping on the FOTM bandwagon, mass crying because their FOTM class suddenly is now OK, but not top tier, doesn't help with balance.

[Orontes]

I think we should make a distinction between best option and viable option. Is SW the best ranged option after the patch? Probably not, there will be many situation where other classes will be better. Which is good, the amount of SWs in the current version clearly shows it's not a correctly balanced class.

Even if not being the best option for every situation, will SW be viable after the patch? Probably yes, just like dps shamans and AMs remain viable, even though they do not dominate the battlefield like they did 2 years ago. Will SW be a top pick for wbs? For aoe ones probably not, which is normal with other classes more catered for pure aoe (BW, choppa, WL). For wbs focusing on picking targets SW will probably remain highly relevant.

A viability argument means acceptable. Your position then is the best SWs can hope for is to be acceptable. This is not desired, nor hoped for, but tolerable. What kind of WBs operate off of a tolerable position? These are simply PUGs (random WBs) that are for the mob alone. An argument that consigns SWs to the mob is not compelling.

Your view eliminates positions in competitive WBs (WBs needing specific roles). You admit SW AOE will be lacking, therefore any WB with an AOE focus won't opt for SWs. The claim WBs focused on picking targets would see SWs as highly relevant. Why would this be the case? The common SW focus is Skirmish. Skirmish is AOE. You have admitted AOE will not be a draw, so Skirmish (the heretofore most common way people have always played SWs for years and years) has been eliminated. Melee SWs are not WB suited. Even the Devs in their fervor to destroy SWs admit their Assault creature will be "high risk/reward hybrid range opportunist" and " unique and rewarding gameplay in the smaller, single-target focused, scale of combat " so Assault is not oriented to WBs and therefore out. It is irrelevant niche play. This leaves Scout that is single target, stationary to do damage, and now designed around Fester and adding dots. Is there anything a Scout SW can do a BW or Engi won't be able to do better? The answer is no.

Are there any SW mains happy with what is coming? No.

The response compares DPS SHs and DPS AMs to the new SW. That is telling. DPS SH and AM are primarily solo and duelists. They are self-sufficient. Can that argument be made for the new SWs? Your defense of the Dev driven catastrophe illustrates the issues perfectly.

I always assumed the informing model for Devs in their reworks was to make each playstyle for classes viable. The DPS options for healers would be an example. Now all healer classes that want to DPS can do it and be effective. The reworks for two-hand Slayer and Choppa also are examples of attempts to make those options appealing. Is there anything appealing in what is coming for SWs? Is there any excitement from the SWs mains? The world you paint is to be tolerated.

The most charitable interpretation of what is happening to SWs appears to be design by spread sheet which means the Devs simply do not know the class and decisions demonstrate that knowledge gap. There are darker interpretive models as well. The result is the same. The class is being severely damaged.

I must say I agree with what you say. In practice, the ideal would be to have all classes be able to perform in WBs, small grps, etc. Based on that, yeh, SW is probably lacking and will be with the changes made.

I'm not saying RoR devs should do the same, but we should maybe understand a small dev team has a limited capacity to make every class fun and viable in SCs, solo, small scale and large scale rvr. Maybe, some classes must understand they may be more catered for small scale due to lack of aoe, etc.

Back to SW, they are great (or decent, again, you can't always expect to be the top of the pyramid) in small scale pvp, even if they get some nerfs, due to the kit they have. WB play? Maybe that's lacking, especially in AOE. If you look at its counterpart, SH, it's probably way more used in WB gameplay.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to say SW is perfectly fine, I just want to say balancing gameplay is not always an easy job. And people jumping on the FOTM bandwagon, mass crying because their FOTM class suddenly is now OK, but not top tier, doesn't help with balance.

A small Dev. Team or limited capacity doesn't work as an excuse for poor product. They are under no time requirements.

Balancing is hard therefore... doesn't work either. There is no indication they pay attention to actual feedback. For example, note the revisions they have implemented since noting the incoming patch. The two new changes for SWs are things no one was complaining about while there is an entire distinct thread on the High Elves forums section focused on the problems with the coming changes, yet nothing from the Powers on any of the legion of issues noted. That is telling. This suggests this thread comments area etc. are all proforma. The Devs do not pay attention to any player commentary. They have a separate coterie of sycophants in their inner circle that whisper in their ear: 'Yes. do that." "You are great." "Don't pay attention to the dross that play the game" "We all know better".

Per your own comments, " SW, they are great (or decent, again..." and " I don't want to say SW is perfectly fine" and " WB play? Maybe that's lacking, especially in AOE. If you look at its counterpart, SH..." do not mesh.

WB play is the primary modeling for the game. It is precisely because of this reality both WEs and WHs were given AOE. I am a SW main. I have played it for years. I clearly remember how things were. SWs were not wanted in WBs. It was common to be refused spots. That old reality will return again. This patch is a massive lost opportunity and demonstration of grand folly.

-Assault: instead of giving some real options (AOE, sustainability, etc.) so they could be viable in WBs they will remain an irrelevant niche (1% of SWs will actually play?)

-Scout: This also will be niche. A 9 second back loaded payoff? This isn't serious work.

-Skirmish: in the Patch explanation the Dev didn't even pretend to spin the Skirmish changes as positive. They all know it's a hammer in the face. It is even more obvious when compared against MSH, or BWs, or any other RDPS, yet they are doing it. It is a case study in willed blindness or apathy.

Once the patch hits SW numbers will collapse. Engis will rise. SHs will rise. Magi will rise. That is not an indication of success.


As stated, the informing model should be to make each element of a class viable for its intent. Assault is comic niche. Scout is niche (likely only played in T1?), and the predominant Skirmish option is being driven to the periphery. A simple example, how does a Skirmish SW compete against a Squig? The 100ft range is gone. While squigs have a no range limit pet whose damage has no AP cost. They also have a range disarm. The Devs should be embarrassed by what they are doing to SWs.

[lumpi33]

Yeah, there was no reason to destroy SWs like that. Skirmish SWs nuclear bombed, Scout SWs worse than before, Assault SWs clunky and gonna die in seconds.

[leftayparxoun]

I never expected SW players to outwhine Slayer mains, yet here we are.

[Nauht]

I never expected SW players to outwhine Slayer mains, yet here we are.

Nah it's only a handful... but boy are they squeaky.

As one Order main said in the WE feedback - adapt and l2play.