Give no renown for kill in SCs

[Stimpz]

I never met someone who is really interested in renown. Maybe number 3 on their priority list.

People want good fights and crests (excluding those who really want to have rr 100 or something).
They could change the renown gain from battlefield objectives to 100k renown per tick and people would be rr90 with 1000 crests in their bag.

Not that I'm against reasonable BOs in SCs, I love playing the BO, but thinking that no renown for kills would change the way players interact with the enemy team is strange.

Make a new character, and run around in an active T4 lake with lvl 1-5 and see what happens.

They kill you even if they get nothing.

[Emissary]

Basically this idea comes from the fact that even with massively reduced renown gains people will STILL hold onto the objective to farm kills. Clearly massively reducing the amount of renown isn't enough for people to figure out they should be winning the scenario instead, as seeing a purple number makes them want to just keep getting more, regardless of how small it is.

So, the only obvious next step is just make it so you don't get ANY renown at all for kills in scenarios. Not seeing any purple number on kills might finally get people to realise that they should be focusing on the actual objective instead.

We will have negative repercussions for those that choose to hold onto the flag (whatever) coming soon, the goal is to make scenarios fun. We will get there eventually we will tweak it until we have the best product we can for the server. There will also be changes to the weekend warfront where those 100 kills wont be a factor as well, points will though.

[lumpi33]

We will have negative repercussions for those that choose to hold onto the flag (whatever) coming soon, the goal is to make scenarios fun. We will get there eventually we will tweak it until we have the best product we can for the server. There will also be changes to the weekend warfront where those 100 kills wont be a factor as well, points will though.

Nice! I think the new queue was already a very good step in that direction. It has improved scenarios dramatically for solo and pug queuers.

For some reason the interest in scenarios is still a bit low. Especially in the lower tiers where they are more important for leveling up. There used to be more pops in t1 and t3 but I don't think it is the new queue. Maybe people are just burned out from other games regarding instanced pvp.

btw: It would help if you could show how many instances are open because the numbers in the queuing window can be a bit misleading. You might think nobody is queuing but they are not queuing because they are actually already inside a scenario. This is more of a psychological thing. When you open the queuing window and see low numbers or 0 tanks or 0 healers then you might think that there is no interest and the waiting time will be long which doesn't have to be the case when there are ending scenarios and people gonna queue again.

I hope you can add a bit more to motivate people into queuing. e.g. daily quests where you have to do 3 scenarios and get a potions or crests as reward. It would be also nice to get a bit of gold for finishing scenarios. I know it is not hard to farm gold but if you don't wanna do PVE you are basically only losing gold over time and you need that money, especially while leveling up e.g. for the faster mounts, talis, gear, potions. Or maybe something new that contributes to the open RVR campaign.

One more thing: I really don't like standing at flags and having to wait until it is captured. Maybe you can speed that up a bit (could be faster when there is no enemy near).

One last thing: Nobody likes one-sided rounds. I think it would be a great thing to have something like the temple of isha damage orb in every scenario for the underdog to gain momentum again - with a timer on it so you cannot hold it forever. It should pop after a few minutes near the starting area when the system notices that it is very one-sided e.g. by kill ratio or by point ratio. You could actually make 3 orbs like in gunbad. One for more damage, one for more healing and one for more damage mitigation.

[wardfan220]

Basically this idea comes from the fact that even with massively reduced renown gains people will STILL hold onto the objective to farm kills. Clearly massively reducing the amount of renown isn't enough for people to figure out they should be winning the scenario instead, as seeing a purple number makes them want to just keep getting more, regardless of how small it is.

So, the only obvious next step is just make it so you don't get ANY renown at all for kills in scenarios. Not seeing any purple number on kills might finally get people to realise that they should be focusing on the actual objective instead.

We will have negative repercussions for those that choose to hold onto the flag (whatever) coming soon, the goal is to make scenarios fun. We will get there eventually we will tweak it until we have the best product we can for the server. There will also be changes to the weekend warfront where those 100 kills wont be a factor as well, points will though.

Unfortunately the problem is getting the people that say "objectives is PvE" and "Doing the flags is cheating" to understand that scenarios are not just hack and smash in 1 spot. There's more to scenarios than beating on people and those people will never understand that.

[dasparkylad]

One issue is kill counts for weekend events. That encourages kill farming. Not that it's wrong but it is a goal/event task.

I think timers on all held objects would be a good idea, as well as timers on held points with no one on them ala rvr bo timers.

I mean that is the other option, instead of having other objectives, just make it different maps you fight on, maybe experiment with buffs to certain classes in certain locations or something. Its just annoying right now that you get people who farm kills for basically no renown instead of trying to win for the big pay off.

[Deadpoet]

As has been pointed out earlier in this thread, a great number of people playing scs won't give a damn about kills not giving renown. Actually, it's probably a minority of people who play the scs as they should.
Most other players fall under two categories:

1 The mindless messy mass of headless chicken who are either deluded thinking they can shine and do some impact or are just new to the game.These will just see someone to kill and go for it regardless of any renown, rewards or practical considerations.

2 The hyper organized, highly specialized pug milking squads who feed on the masses' blindness and who actually benefit from their victims playing objectives instead of trying to defend themselves from their predators. Picture the crocodiles and hyenas lying in wait for the herds of zebras and gazelles tunnelvisioned into their migration route for newer pastures. This applies in RvR too.

The idea of locking event completion behind points from capping objectives might be a step in the good direction. I like that they care and try to fix the issues.

[Hypernia]

Carebear take

[Morradin]

-Killing is 90% the first thing to win a sc (going solo for obj make the team wipe)

Not anymore. If you want to win you need to do the objectives.

Make a 500 point win the only win that counts. And yes, remove the kill score requirement for weekend scenarios. It sucks, but all these kill chasers are ruining event scenarios for the rest of us.

[gersy]

this thread actually hurts to read

[Demonito]

-Killing is 90% the first thing to win a sc (going solo for obj make the team wipe)

Not anymore. If you want to win you need to do the objectives.

It depends on the map
Problem is : there are fewer maps where team can focus on BO over kills
Twisted tower/DW/Khaine's Embrace/High pass : in those, BO can be done with your team splitting
Then almost every other maps, the best strat to take BO is to blob
Lowering renown is unfair ; kills in sc require skill/gear/teamplay
Also, kills grant obj points in every sc, they are part of the key to victory
And like some said, 0 renown won't stop some players to go mad dogs
Better solution would be to rework maps : so doing obj is always possible while team loses on kills
Like removing lock on flags in Reikland Hills / Logrin's Forge / Thunder Valley / BotBC
(There are also few maps where BO are not working : like DW orbs)

If any dev around, please fix the SC party bug
When someone leaves sc, group starts to bug and won't display players correctly