Suggestion: Cut stealth duration by 50%

[nat3s]

LISTEN UP, this is a YOU problem. Do you gear 5/4 sov/tri glass cannon? If so, you MUST accept you cannot be all cannon no glass. There's parry gear, regen gear, armour setups, TB setups. An RP, Zeal, AM, Sham, Magus can literally exist and profit by farming WEs/WHs.

It's so simple lads, dont go full glass cannon. Sadly you'd rather stick your fingers in your ears whilst hugging sub 400 tough, sub 3k armour 0 def setups because "omg 35% crit".

[culland]

Maybe get a group or come out if warcamp with others? Kinda simple.

You dont think this is a problem, even for your own play style? Why should everyone have to wait to leave a WC as a group and what impact does that have on everyone else's ability to mess around without a group if they are in the mood? If a DPS RP is hanging around the WC they are going to get killed sooner or later, not so for stealthers. This is why stealth needs adjusting.

[Avanos]

Maybe get a group or come out if warcamp with others? Kinda simple.

You dont think this is a problem, even for your own play style? Why should everyone have to wait to leave a WC as a group and what impact does that have on everyone else's ability to mess around without a group if they are in the mood? If a DPS RP is hanging around the WC they are going to get killed sooner or later, not so for stealthers. This is why stealth needs adjusting.

Would you prefer to have a 3-6 second warning as a stealther approached?

[culland]

LISTEN UP, this is a YOU problem. Do you gear 5/4 sov/tri glass cannon? If so, you MUST accept you cannot be all cannon no glass. There's parry gear, regen gear, armour setups, TB setups. An RP, Zeal, AM, Sham, Magus can literally exist and profit by farming WEs/WHs.

It's so simple lads, dont go full glass cannon. Sadly you'd rather stick your fingers in your ears whilst hugging sub 400 tough, sub 3k armour 0 def setups because "omg 35% crit".

Everyone else has to live by this except for stealthers? Everyone else cant jump out of stealth on selected target at perfect timing. Everyone else cant escape easily if it goes bad. So its good for you with stealth being broken to be glass cannon because its all high rewards and no risk, but everyone else has to play a specific spec or they cant leave the WC without a group? Also stop acting like this is a 1v1 thing, its a 1 vs several stealthers most of the time.

Stealth needs adjustment as per the topic of this thread.

[nat3s]

LISTEN UP, this is a YOU problem. Do you gear 5/4 sov/tri glass cannon? If so, you MUST accept you cannot be all cannon no glass. There's parry gear, regen gear, armour setups, TB setups. An RP, Zeal, AM, Sham, Magus can literally exist and profit by farming WEs/WHs.

It's so simple lads, dont go full glass cannon. Sadly you'd rather stick your fingers in your ears whilst hugging sub 400 tough, sub 3k armour 0 def setups because "omg 35% crit".

Everyone else has to live by this except for stealthers? Everyone else cant jump out of stealth on selected target at perfect timing. Everyone else cant escape easily if it goes bad. So its good for you with stealth being broken to be glass cannon because its all high rewards and no risk, but everyone else has to play a specific spec or they cant leave the WC without a group? Also stop acting like this is a 1v1 thing, its a 1 vs several stealthers most of the time.

Stealth needs adjustment as per the topic of this thread.

Clearly we won't agree. The second glass cannon can outlast def/paffy/regen, you'll homogenise builds and throw out a ton of content/options in the process. I farm WEs/WHs all day long, a glass cannon WE dies like a fart in the wind to me, def is tougher, but still a 100% win (dps RP - 600 tough, 3k armour, 1050 int, 980 willpower, 35% mag crit, 35% heal crit, 0% chance to be crit, 3 hots, 4k hot pot, 2.5k heal pot, 2.2k absorb pot, 50% shield wall dmg reduction, 1.5k insta heal, 1k staff heal, knockback, stagger). No problem whatsoever.

I wish you knew the solo meta, if you played exclusively solo, you'd learn about the build options and you'd literally be completely blown away by the variety of builds... But no, you'll just stick to glass cannon sov-tri and cry for balance changes to make glass cannon all cannon no glass right? Clearly a game problem not a build knowledge problem amiright?!

[georgehabadasher]

An RP, Zeal, AM, Sham, Magus can literally exist and profit by farming WEs/WHs.

This sentence is both damning to your argument while missing the forest for the trees. By your own words only five classes can consistently beat these stealth classes in fair fights. If anyone is playing any of the other seventeen classes, and playing them in a very specific niche spec, they’re not supposed to leave the war camp solo.

What you’re missing is that because of stealth, a WH or WE can choose to ignore these unfavorable matchups entirely and only choose to engage on those five classes when they have help.

Hilariously, this topic has basically boiled down to WH and WE players saying it’s fine and everyone else saying it isn’t.

[Narfii]

An RP, Zeal, AM, Sham, Magus can literally exist and profit by farming WEs/WHs.

This sentence is both damning to your argument while missing the forest for the trees. By your own words only five classes can consistently beat these stealth classes in fair fights. If anyone is playing any of the other seventeen classes, and playing them in a very specific niche spec, they’re not supposed to leave the war camp solo.

What you’re missing is that because of stealth, a WH or WE can choose to ignore these unfavorable matchups entirely and only choose to engage on those five classes when they have help.

Hilariously, this topic has basically boiled down to WH and WE players saying it’s fine and everyone else saying it isn’t.

Nah you really don't have anything outside of a 60/40 or 40/60 at even gear, except maybe BW. Assuming solo specs. I've rekt and gotten rekt by every class.

Also, you can avoid these unfavorable matchups without stealth. I use stealth minimally tbh and try to save it for resets. Pug warbands especially can be very bad for your situational awareness and timing.

As others have said I would encourage actually specing and playing solo. Almost all the classes can do it and produce. You learn more about the mechanics of classes too.

I think the ability to escape "on demand" is overstated. Sure, you get more agency in this decision than other classes. That is a feature. Stealth classes are control classes. However this usually requires a good amount of timing and prediction. If you leave escape up as an option every fight you forego your use of kd, in typically timed fights. Very rarely am I able to escape against more than a couple targets in a flat scenario without utilizing los or other shenanigans. You can buy time various ways to get to m1/elixir but this again requires positioning and timing knowledge, dt, pots, etc. Often in these situations you're coming out of it with no CDs and likely 1 or 2 pots down. The (somewhat) guaranteed stealth escape is a THREE button combo (one being a morale), requires directional facing, AND for tanks to miss their taunts. This is more than fair, imo.

[georgehabadasher]

I can’t see how you’re disagreeing. The argument is that wh/we have access to a kit that lets them disengage and engage in a way no other class can, while still retaining all the advantages of other mdps classes. Almost every sentence in your post supports that position.

I use stealth minimally tbh and try to save it for resets.

No other class can reset in this way.

Sure, you get more agency in this decision than other classes.

Exactly.

Very rarely am I able to escape against more than a couple targets in a flat scenario without utilizing los or other shenanigans.

Emphasis mine. No other class can hope to do this, except WL, and their opponents need to badly misplay.

You can buy time various ways to get to m1/elixir but this again requires positioning and timing knowledge, dt, pots, etc.

No other class can do this.

Often in these situations you're coming out of it with no CDs and likely 1 or 2 pots down. The (somewhat) guaranteed stealth escape is a THREE button combo (one being a morale), requires directional facing, AND for tanks to miss their taunts.

Any other class is just dead.

[Endari]

No other class can reset in this way.

So stagger does not help reset fights? Snare+charge/flee does not reset fights? Punt someone to the moon does not reset fights? Argue your cause but don't lie or misrepresent facts please.

[georgehabadasher]

No other class can reset in this way.

So stagger does not help reset fights? Snare+charge/flee does not reset fights? Punt someone to the moon does not reset fights? Argue your cause but don't lie or misrepresent facts please.

First, that quote was in reference to stealth, which means that he’s, no other class can reset in that way.

Second, WE/WH have literally all of the tools you mentioned at their disposal, in addition to the rest of their kit.

The argument isn’t that no one else can reset and disengage from fights. The argument is that no one else can reset fights and disengage as well as WH/WE can.

To argue otherwise is extremely disingenuous.