WE/WH: What really went wrong

[Adapa]

from order player perspective: WE come, 75% damage while first attack, knockdown. you can do nothing against them. guess I go play a different game. makes 0 sense to me, to make half naked dark elves as tanky, strong, life regeneratable and all while stealthing is there. oh they can punt you, jump at you too . unique to them to have both right? im giving up on this

[nocturnalguest]

This is such a tired argument.

Look at the population: https://maartenson.net/ror_graph.html

Even at prime time EU, it's only for an hour or two max that the population pops above 400 in T2+ on either side. The rest of the time, it's just low pop and at times even dropping below 100 in T2 for either side. Most organised guilds that regularly field an organised WB on discord left. You got Formosa rocking up twice a week, Unreal forming when Brodda is on, Retribution is a shade of its former glory, LNM quit, etc, etc...

Solo builds wouldn't matter much when the game was at live and fully populated with proper WBs running around most time of the day. Now it's just a PUG fest, with often times not even PUG WBs around, that's why a good proportion of the time the lakes are dominated by solo DPS healers and stealth classes.

The game is now at such a low pop that it should balance solo classes as well, or the game becomes unplayable for a decent chunk of the day.

I made no argument, i just stated a fact.

Also no argue about pug fest info, all true.

However i dont think that balancing solo is an option tho. Its just that optics are bad again, itemization nobody asked for right in the middle of so declared "balance" patches, random none working orvr events (while official thread was full of out-of-box ideas) etc.
oRvR (not even oRvR specifically but replayability in general is in worst spot ever, using oRvR just cause its by design main gameplay) desperately needs an overhaul and a balance group + focus group is clearly not enough for such a task. Real cities are completely dead, rankeds are literally turned off (even if they would be on then horrible bo3&wounds system nobody asked for is in place).

If anything i believe main focus should be put into oRvR/campaign overhaul, then make cities great again, then fix rankeds (delete rings by crests but give a clear path to earn insignias, introduce all the cosmetics and not just random dyes which you can only distinguish if they had RAL number on it but i mean real gear - helmets, gloves, boots, chests whatever ror team so desperately been cutting off from the game in all those years, put pve stuff there as an alternative path to earn stuff without suffering in boring outdated by years vs modern games content).

Balancing around solo in current game mechanics is just unrealistic to happen. Thats definitely shouldnt be on a list of priorities. All the serious tweaks there echo group play too much, so the only real direction there is to cross out unique nature of classes and nullify all aor spirit and just unify everything with mirror selfsustain abilities like in modern mmo's, so picking a class will be purely aestatic, cosmetic decision.

[hordak774]

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/r ... ;0;4;0;0;0
https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... 2,9588,585
https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 912/armory

tell me one thing why dps wp dont have aa speed tactic ?!

Because RoR removed WP AA haste tactic like year ago or so? LOL

is 50% aa speed equivalent to 25% aa dmg ??

[Sinisterror]

tell me one thing why dps wp dont have aa speed tactic ?!

Because RoR removed WP AA haste tactic like year ago or so? LOL

is 50% aa speed equivalent to 25% aa dmg ??

Hard to say if its equivalent to 25% aa dmg, but i would rather take old 4.1s wpns with 50% AA haste tactic back instead of 25% AA dmg. But 25% AA dmg is a great thing in ability, not tactic imo.

[hordak774]

Because RoR removed WP AA haste tactic like year ago or so? LOL

is 50% aa speed equivalent to 25% aa dmg ??

Hard to say if its equivalent to 25% aa dmg, but i would rather take old 4.1s wpns with 50% AA haste tactic back instead of 25% AA dmg. But 25% AA dmg is a great thing in ability, not tactic imo.

ye too little for tactic, you still playing dont see your doc around ? or on twink

[Fenris78]

is 50% aa speed equivalent to 25% aa dmg ??

+50% AA speed = +33% AA Damage per second (you divide initial AA speed by 1.5, meaning you get a 33% speed increase).

So technically it's a +33% AA dmg increase in term of overall DPS, but it does not increase the damage per hit.

SO globally for a melee dps with about 20-25% AA dmg contribution to total damage, it's about 33% * 0.2 (or 0.25) = 6.6 to 8.25 % more DPS overall.

[Sanctific]

In all honesty, WE/WH are in a good FIGHTING spot right now i reckon and nah, i dont play one and i never will, the shadow (rat) play disgusts me.

I mean, they are either DPS-y af (WHs) or abominably tough to kill (WEs) which is fine, i mean it, this CAN be counterplayed.

However, what really is NOT right with them (and i think i mentioned it a few times in other threads) is their ability to escape the fight at will without leaving a chance to their opponent to get it resumed. And nah, I aint talking about vanish, that is sorta a natural thing for them to have and it is (sorta) balanced. But, ffs, the ability to re-stealth at will with guaranteed success unless fighting non-magical rdps (only 1 on destro, 2 on order...but even then, restealthing is nearly guaranteed if a WH/WE has at least some environmental awareness & planning skills, just takes a few seconds more) and undefendable stagger+leap - that is broken, for real.

Again, i personally have 0 issues with the balancing (its rather poor ofc but whatever, an experienced PvP-er will always find ways to counterplay) but the damn cheaty ability (as in not a single skill, but a concept) to disengage at will and reset a fight with a guarantee - that aint right.

[Spookidoll]

Yes, finally normal look at we/wh in long time.

sorry, i just had to jump in here for a moment since i'm a dps dok. they def do crazy single target damage, on top of heavy hitting attacks they also have 3 available dots (4 if you count life steal morale) and apply another dot from doing crit damage, its actually insane. My dok right now only does about 50 less dps on the target dummy than my sov sorc. hell just yesterday i killed a slayer equal level to me in literally 3 hits. opened with armor debuf, consume str, then drowning in blood and execute move and he was gone. i would say on average in pvp any class thats not tanky and not being gaurded or healed can be killed in about 3-4 hits with warlord/victorious or warlord/dps sov

[Panzer80]

And to this nonsense about WE absorb.. It is exactly one-half of the antithesis to repel blasphemy (defensive tactic/ability). Remove that tactic and you bust the yin/yang of WH/WE. Any crying about it without bringing this fact up is disingenuous.

I really don’t understand this player obsession with Sacrificial Reward in RoR. I’ve been playing since live day one, and I don’t remember people complaining about it on the forums back then.

As gear progression improves and crit becomes more common, a 600 absorb is basically nothing. Any decent DPS setup will burst through that in milliseconds. In my opinion, it’s one of the most overrated Witch Elf tactics, and it’s pretty much useless in group play.

Then there’s the 1v1 “mindgame” aspect, where some players go critless and stack raw stats instead. In those cases, SR becomes completely worthless.

SR for group play? Forget it.

Let’s break down how useful SR actually is in different scenarios in RoR (rating from 1 to 10):

Warband: 1
Group play: 1
Solo 1v1: 8 (but easily countered by raw stats; for example, if you’re a defensive WE running SR against a critless WL/WH stacking STR and WS, you’re effectively wasting a tactic slot)
Ranked 6v6: 1
City: 1
Pug Scenarios: 1
PvE: 1

I agree. It's because the people crying don't understand what they're crying about. SO, the boogy man AbsOrB gets focused. It's just using the tools you get like WH's stacking M1 and Repel.

[umjima]

But they do seem suffer in WB's or is that just WH?